Dialogue ID: t3_1qtuy4

Corpus: Winning Arguments (ChangeMyView) Corpus

URL: https://convokit.cornell.edu/documentation/winning.html

License:

WMN sequences (2):

WMN ID: t3_1qtuy4_t1_cdgg51g

Context: Online interaction

WMN Type: WMN: disagreement

WMN Meaning: situated meaning

Trigger words: oppressive

Indicator sentences: In what sense are you using the word "oppressive"?

Negotiation parts: I think you're hard-pressed to demonstrate that marriage 'oppresses' anyone when all parties involved are consenting adults. And I didn't really see anything in your initial post that argued that marriage was oppressive, so why would you think that? If you simply mean by this that the two partners in a marriage are "handcuffing" themselves to each other (as you put it)... I mean, yeah, but you can always get a divorce. Admittedly a messy process as you said, but a number of contractual agreements that people engage in freely can be broken only with some messy consequences. So, in all of this, what we're left with is two (or more) people freely deciding to take place in what you regard as an oppressive and outdated tradition. Why would they do this? Well, because getting married makes a lot of people happy. I personally wouldn't get married either, but the fact that even in our society today people still want to get married I think says something. The idea that freedom consists only of relations between consenting adults is a very narrow, formal, and legalistic concept of freedom in my opinion. Consent is just the bare bones of freedom. I believe it is actually possible for people to oppress each other (and themselves), even if formally and legally, they are "free." Take for instance, the pressure to conform to social expectations. Is the threat of being socially ostracized not a serious one? I mean there's a reason why solitary confinement is considered such a harsh punishment. Although there is nothing illegal or involuntary about choosing to ostracize someone, being a victim of it is not fun, maybe even less fun than getting mugged or robbed. It's the kind of thing that can drive people to suicide actually, so in a way its more serious than many formal violations of freedom. There is a whole dimension of freedom versus oppression in our (voluntary) social relationships that we don't acknowledge. So why do I consider marriage oppressive? Well in my view you are locking yourself into something - restricting your freedom - unnecessarily. You are free to get a divorce, yes. But it's not just having to deal with the legal system that locks you in, but your own ideals and expectations about what marriage means that are locking you in. Yes, it is a consenting "contract" between two adults. But essentially you are freely choosing to give up your freedom. Is that really freedom? So I'm not talking about the kind of oppression where one person imposes their will on another without their consent. I'm talking about psychological and social oppression, where ideals and social expectations are concrete barriers to living your life freely and pursuing happiness.

WMN ID: t3_1qtuy4_t1_cdh7au2

Context: Online interaction

WMN Type: Non-pursued

WMN Meaning: no WMN

Trigger words: failure

Indicator sentences: It depends how you define "failure."