Dialogue ID: t3_316pae

Corpus: Winning Arguments (ChangeMyView) Corpus

URL: https://convokit.cornell.edu/documentation/winning.html

License:

WMN sequences (2):

WMN ID: t3_316pae_t1_cpyu50o

Context: Online interaction

WMN Type: WMN: disagreement

WMN Meaning: both

Trigger words: better

Indicator sentences: Your definition of "better" seems to be highly **subjective** based upon the metrics that *you* find valuable: * Income equality * Life expectancy * Education (test scores) * Environmentally responsible consumer habits * Mother's and children's rights * Nonviolence * Economic mobility * Inequailty-adjusted HDI etc.

Negotiation parts: You say those are the measures of development for the US, but for lack of a better term, you "cherry picked" the statistics that define development based upon your subjective belief in their value, when there are so many others that can define development as well - not to mention, I'd argue quite a few people would disagree with your metrics as the defining measures of human development such as mother's and children's rights (which vary considerably even in Europe) and environmentally responsible consumer habits (for instance, Europe is far more reliant on foreign oil from the Middle East or Russia, all questionable regimes, than the US which gets most of its oil from Canada, Mexico, or domestically). Not to mention, quite a few of these metrics are debatable to begin with. For instance, education (test scores): aside from the fact that test scores between countries are considered only one of many metrics to measure actual educational performance/attainment, you're also ignoring the other metrics that paint the US in a far different light when it comes to education. As an example, the US dominates the top university rankings in the world, with a disproportional number of schools. You can see that quite clearly when you consider that the US has more international students than any other country in the world by a fair margin - [18% of all total worldwide international students](http://www.uis.unesco.org/Education/Pages/international-student-flow-viz.aspx) go to the US for their studies. Which specific metrics and subjective values put the US in a more positive light than Europe? You are probably right in that it comes down to a person's individual values, but still some statistics would (I'm guessing) give OP some more perspective. You mention: [STA-CITE]> As an example, the US dominates the top university rankings in the world, with a disproportional number of schools. You can see that quite clearly when you consider that the US has more international students than any other country in the world by a fair margin - 18% of all total worldwide international students go to the US for their studies. [END-CITE]Certainly, the best universities in the world are located in America. But is the *average* American university any better than the *average* European/Asian one? Not to mention that in the US we have an expectation that students fund their entire education, sometimes through personal debt; a concept that doesn't really exist in the rest of the world. So I think the picture here is a little more nuanced.

WMN ID: t3_316pae_t1_cpyz7yp

Context: Online interaction

WMN Type: WMN: disagreement

WMN Meaning: both

Trigger words: economic crisis (2)

Indicator sentences: you have some misunderstanding about what it means to be in economic crisis, so you come up with pearls like "The European crisis is the hoax of the century"

Negotiation parts: "Economic crisis" is a bit of a hand-wavy word, but what it's getting at is the general conditions of a recession, which has a specific definition: it means negative GDP growth for two consecutive quarters or more. [As we can see here] (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG/countries/EU?display=graph), the EU experienced a double-dip recession starting in 2008 and is currently in recover from the second dip, which began in 2011 - which is exactly what you would have been told in any mainstream media outlet. Since a recession is a sufficient condition for calling a situation an economic crisis, I think we can agree here. But, on top of that, it is extremely true that the unemployment situation in the South is very bad, as is the fallout from the social security obligations which you like so much. The latter two issues are examples of the EU's structural economic crisis, which is the specific thing everybody's worried about. It differs from your run of the mill recession because it is caused by the economic system not working, and can only be fixed by reengineering that system. I agree with most of what you've said but [STA-CITE]>I think we can agree here. But, on top of that, it is extremely true that the unemployment situation in the South is very bad, as is the fallout from the social security obligations which you like so much [END-CITE]Is pretty bad economics in itself.