[FY2PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] two , as an apprentice to waggon repairing . Now this er of course was railway waggons and er when you started work you was put with a skilled man and i er it was his job to repair the waggons and teach you at the same time . Now the first job he did was to get you well acquainted with the tools , which we had quite a number of them . Er spanners , and such like , and also woodcutting tools . You was expected to er to get to know these and also you was to taught to er sharpen the wood tools . Such as saws , chisels , and so forth . And er cold chisels , you had to keep those sharp , and er use a hammer and er watch as you did n't hit your fingers and knuckles . Now , after that , you was er taught all the parts of the waggons , and er this took quite a long while because we did n't know anything about them , and er where they all went and the parts they went . And then , after that , you was taught , er about six month , you was taught then er to measure the timbers up and also er start to er er mark the the er timbers out . Because everything was handmade , er all the holes in the er timbers , they had to be carefully er marked out so that y er when they went to the wood machines there was a er they would be bored in the right place , and the right size of holes . Which was ranged from half inch , to two inches , and then of course the mortices , and tenons , they had to be marked out . And then we had to cut those out , by hands hand , that er of course entailed quite a lot of work er for er for the mortices to be cleaned out , and the tenons to be cut by hand , so that they fit in the proper places .
[FY2PS000]
Those were joints were they ? Mortices ?
[PS25F]
They were join Mortice
[FY2PS000]
Right .
[PS25F]
and tenon 's a joint . Er now after about two years , er you got more proficient and then , of course , you could also help with the stripping down of the waggons . The frame was er one section , and the body work was er er the top , of course . Er but the framework , that was all made from English oak . It ranged from er about eighteen foot long , sixteen to eighteen foot long , er twelve inches wide and five inches thick , and we was taught how to be able to handle these by balance . They the frame was er constructed on on er two trestles and , of course , er you put your trestles so that you could balance it , so that it was n't so heavy to lift . And er , then of course , when you got the frame er right , y you put it together , by using cramps and rods , and such like . And then , of course , when you 'd got that completed or or the er bad parts pu taken out and the new ones put in , of course then you put the floor down , which was er er s er seven by two and half timber , that was teal . And er , then of course , then you came along to the er to the bodywork , which was er two and a half timber teal , or p even pitched pine . But y you 'd got to watch , there again , that er you did n't exceed the width of er of your waggon , which it 's maximum limit was er would be er eight foot three , or er eleven foot six , high . So er , you see , you 'd got to really watch what you was doing all the while . Now at this stage I 'll er I 'll go to the er to the wages . Er when I first started , my er wages , a first week 's wage was er , e eleven and sixpence . That is the old currency . And er the firm payed me er four shilling , a week , and er the man I was working with , he he , the rest of it was taken out of his er his er wage packet er and put into mine , and so I got about eleven and sixpence a week . Er and er that went up , the firm 's pay , er by sixpence a year . Sixpence a week , per year , see ? Er in other words , er when I was fifteen I got sixpence a week extra and a little more from the man I worked with . And er that went , of course , on for a year . And er then , of course , when I was about eighteen , er I became what is what be what was called as an improver . Then I would be able to take lighter jobs on my own , what we 'd call er light repairs . And , of course , I gradually built up then to until I got the er the main overall jobs , and er w by the time I was twenty one , of course , I was considered a full waggon repairer . Ha .
[FY2PS000]
So when you ? Twenty one was when you finished your apprenticeship ,
[PS25F]
Yes , that 's right .
[FY2PS000]
did you carry on working at the same place ?
[PS25F]
Yes , I c I was fortunate to be able to carry on at the same place .
[FY2PS000]
And where was that ?
[PS25F]
That was at er m er at Tottan Sidings it was a private firm , but er they repaired th their own er their own stock of waggons .
[FY2PS000]
And did your wage go up a lot when you 'd finished your apprenticeship ?
[PS25F]
Er yes , wh yes , I came on full rate then . It was piece work , and I earned I er The firm payed me as a retaining fee , ten shillings a week , and then was what I earned , you see ? Each item , on the waggon , had a price on it .
[FY2PS000]
Ah , I see .
[PS25F]
You see ? Er for putting in er one floor plank in , as an illustration , we got er a penny , three farthings for it . But , you see , if you 'd forty of those , which would be about the your maximum , you got er forty penny , three farthings . And so on .
[FY2PS000]
How long would it take to build a whole waggon ?
[PS25F]
Well , w I was n't repairing them , but er I was n't building , but to overhaul er a waggon er it would probably take you , probably a week . But if it was a light repair job it would be a day . You see , it was all hand done , you see ? F er your bodywork was er it was cut off You measured and cut it off with your er at the at the mill , and er , of course , then when it got to the er you cut it You know , when you got it to the er your waggon , you put it in and , of course , then you 'd got to bore all the holes by hand for the bolts to go in , to fit in .
[FY2PS000]
So everything was done by hand , in fact ?
[PS25F]
Everything was done by hand . You had to buy your own tools , as well .
[FY2PS000]
When did you buy those ? At the beginning of your apprenticeship ?
[PS25F]
No , at the end . When you 'd got a little bit more money . . Of course , we had to have good quality tools , we had er er now , we had Spear and Jackson saws , always , because they was the best quality . And , Ridgeways , we had a special bits , what we called a fast bit , for er for the er o the bodywork an and instead of having the the pointed er er er cutters on , it was the flat cutters , you see , they was a bit faster . And then , if we had to bore er through the oak er we had w er twelve inch bits , and they was very slow , m er er and we a also had er a special er brace with them , a fourteen inch sweep brace . Which the normal one was er er , w I think it 's a five inch brace for the er er it 's five inch sweeper , in other words it 's er about Is it six inches ? Twelve inch sweep for the er with the brace , they had normally .
[FY2PS000]
Were there any other special tools that you had to have ?
[PS25F]
Er yes , we had to have cramps and er they was they was also provided , you see ? And er we had to have er for the spr er for springs the er the buffers er we had to have a er a tool then to put the pressure on on to the buffer springs . That was provided , you see ? Now er the er the draw gear , it 's not just er er a coupling and a draw bar , it connects up with the er the buffer spring , which also er serves for the buffers as you know them , on the outside . Well then there was a bar went right through , well half way through , and then i it a cradle fitted on , and then there was er a coil spring fitted in there and er a set of rubbers . And then same the other end , and so it went right through that waggon , and your coupling took the strain for the next waggon and so on and so on until you 'd got the complete train fitted up .
[FY2PS000]
I see . Erm was the place that you were working at very big , then ? How many people worked there ?
[PS25F]
Er yeah , well , no . It was n't really big , there was about thirty of us , about a dozen er waggon repairers and er and er a apprentices . And of course then you 'd got the er you 'd got the mill , er and then , of course , the blacksmith 's shop . You see , all the iron work , as you took it off , it had to be straightened out , and if it was broken it had to be rewelded . There was no spot welding in those days , it all had to be forge weld welded .
[FY2PS000]
Mhm . I see . So quite a long job ,
[PS25F]
Yes .
[FY2PS000]
in fact . And were you in a union of any sort ?
[PS25F]
Er l After I finished my apprenticeship I was in a union .
[FY2PS000]
Which union was that ?
[PS25F]
Er Transport and General Workers Union , and , of course , then we was taken o b over by the A E U , Amalgamated Engineering Union , when we we changed course , and we all became A E U members .
[FY2PS000]
I see . Erm you say you started work in nineteen twenty two , so ,
[PS25F]
That 's right .
[FY2PS000]
you would have been working when the General Strike was on ,
[PS25F]
That 's right .
[FY2PS000]
do you remember anything about that ?
[PS25F]
Yes . I I was er I was out of work then , for er four month , during the er er nineteen twenty six strike . Er of course , I was an apprentice then , again . Er what would I be ? Er I was n't eighteen , and er I got er seven and six a week , dole money , that 's in the old cunner currency , which would make er , let's see , er g twelve and twelve and five , about twelve shilling a week . Something like that .
[FY2PS000]
Mm .
[PS25F]
And er we had to walk to Long Eaton three times and week , which would be , from here , would be two and a half mile away , and then we 'd we er on the Friday It was Mondays , Wednesdays and and Fridays , and we got paid on the Friday . And you was given a time to go in to sign on . We had to sign on er three times a week . We was er given a time to go and er it was anything after nine o'clock , in the morning .
[FY2PS000]
I see . And then you got You had to go three times a week [UNCLEAR] ?
[PS25F]
Three times a week , then , yes .
[FY2PS000]
Why was that , then ?
[PS25F]
Well , it was starvation years , actually .
[FY2PS000]
Can you remember what it was like managing on that amount of money ?
[PS25F]
Well , we did n't .
[FY2PS000]
Were you living at home , then ?
[PS25F]
I was living at home . How my mother er managed we don' we 'd never know . It was
[FY2PS000]
Did you ?
[PS25F]
hand to mouth .
[FY2PS000]
Yeah . You gave all the money to your mother , then , did you ?
[PS25F]
Yes . Yes .
[FY2PS000]
Yeah . But you remember it as being
[PS25F]
Y yes .
[FY2PS000]
a difficult time ?
[PS25F]
Yeah .
[FY2PS000]
And you were out of w work for four months then ?
[PS25F]
A yes .
[FY2PS000]
Were you out of work any other time during your working
[PS25F]
No . No . No .
[FY2PS000]
life ?
[PS25F]
I was on er What happened after that er when we was er , winter time in particular , er we was short of work , er you see , er Well er the the waggons did n't get er damaged so much because they was er they was extensively but er they was all they was weathered , you see ? And it swelled the timbers up .
[FY2PS000]
Mm .
[PS25F]
Well of course then you get a hot summer and it er it er revealed the cracks and the breaks , see ? Now er when we 'd done a waggon er it was n't just er right , that 's alright , er we had a railway examiner come along and er he 'd go round it and if there was anything as he was was n't satisfied with , or any other further repairs , he he 'd stop that waggon from going out , and er of course we had to go r go back and do it . Of course we got paid for that as well . Well then every three years all the wagg [UNCLEAR] at the end , er they had to have an M O T. In other words , it was called general repairs . Now when it had had a general repair on it , there was a little plate put on it and er then i it w it was supposed to go out again for three years . Now er all the waggons they had a registration plate on . That 's surprised you , has n't it ?
[FY2PS000]
Like
[PS25F]
Y
[FY2PS000]
a car ?
[PS25F]
Right , like a car , only it was a cast plate , and it was er , on this plate was er er who it was registered by , what railway company it was registered by , er it 's er load capacity , we used to have ten and twelve ton , and er it 's registration number . Ah , now , that 's it . And er , of course , er there was one either side of the waggon . And from there , oh y these waggons were oh , nothing to be one forty year old .
[FY2PS000]
Really ?
[PS25F]
Yeah .
[FY2PS000]
That 's a good age , is n't it ?
[PS25F]
Mm .
[FY2PS000]
Mm . Erm how long did you actually work at this same place for ?
[PS25F]
Oh , about thirty year .
[FY2PS000]
As long as that ?
[PS25F]
Yes .
[FY2PS000]
So what happened during the second world war ?
[PS25F]
I was still there , I was in er it was classed as a reserved occupation , so I did n't have to go to to the war . But with the same rule , I was n't allowed to leave , I could n't leave . See ?
[FY2PS000]
What ? What does reserved occupation mean ?
[PS25F]
Er it means er you was er working er now You was a reserved occupation because i it was of great importance . That 's near as I can tell you about it now , it has a special name I know , but er , that 's it . Y your er you was er er now . That 's it , yo you was er reserved because you was more important to be on your job than er go to the war .
[FY2PS000]
I see .
[PS25F]
But what happened er You did n't quite get off , quite free , I was detailed to join the Home Guard .
[FY2PS000]
Ah . Can you tell me about that ?
[PS25F]
Yes . Er I think I had two years in the Home Guard . Er we had to go to er do manoeuvres er every Sunday , see ? When we were n't working . And er we used to go into er Bramcote Park and er manoeuvre er left flanking movements , and right flanking movements , and drill , and er and then , of course , and then , occasionally , we 'd have a mock battle . And I was learnt to er go into a quarry and er fire the er rifles , then we had bayonet practice . And er , then , we was all sorted out , this was the staple for the Home Guard , we was sorted out er to go to er er man the guns at Sutton-on-Sea , the er girder rockets . And er I was er one that was sorted out to go , but they would n't let me go because er I could n't get b they could n't get me back to work for seven o'clock on Monday morning . That was a weekend do , you see ?
[FY2PS000]
So you were n't allowed to go along ?
[PS25F]
No , I was n't allowed to go with . So I had to stay back in er in Stapleford , the Stapleford Home Guard . Mind you , it was er it wa was n't er really dangerous because , of course , they , as you know , the the Germans never came .
[FY2PS000]
So you never really had to use any of
[PS25F]
No .
[FY2PS000]
the skills that you 'd learnt ?
[PS25F]
We had all the equipment , gas masks and er and and gnats and all that . Rifles , and bayonets , [UNCLEAR] , but the bayonets and rifles were kep at the drill hall at Stapleford .
[FY2PS000]
I see . Erm working at the same place for so many years you must have had ? Do you remember any of your work mates in particular ?
[PS25F]
Oh , yes . Yes . Oh , yes . Er er I 'm afraid they 're about all passed on , now .
[FY2PS000]
Really .
[PS25F]
You know , I 'm very friendly with one of those that are , but er , we lost one this last year , I was really friendly with him . There 's one [UNCLEAR] big friend now , he he comes up about , oh most weeks , we come and have a natter and er and one thing or another .
[FY2PS000]
Can you remember any any funny stories or anything , from work ?
[PS25F]
No , no , I do n't know as I can . Er you see , we was er we was kept busy , you see , all the while . Er of course , it was rather dangerous work , really , because it was [UNCLEAR] stuff we was dealing with .
[FY2PS000]
Was anybody ever injured then , that you can
[PS25F]
Oh , yes we were
[FY2PS000]
remember ?
[PS25F]
Yes , there was one or two had er w er there was one or two got ruptured and er and one or two had broken fingers and such like . Sprained wrists and such like .
[FY2PS000]
Did anything ever happen to you ?
[PS25F]
No , nothing happened to me .
[FY2PS000]
What about those that were injured , did they get any kind of compensation ?
[PS25F]
Er yes , they got compensation , but not lump sums .
[FY2PS000]
So what would happen ? It was paid out gradually ?
[PS25F]
Weekly .
[FY2PS000]
Weekly ?
[PS25F]
Yes , you got a weekly compensation .
[FY2PS000]
I see .
[PS25F]
Now er when er I was er eighteen I had to do pay er National Health and er it was abo er about a shilling a week and
[FY2PS000]
And that was insur health insurance ?
[PS25F]
National Health Insurance , yes . And er of course , when I er I became twenty one , the National Health Insurance was er now went up to one and tenpence . Now er that , if I was off sick , I could go to the Doctor and er I got , as a single man , I got er a pound a week from the National Health . And of course , when I was eighteen , I think it was about er seven and six a week .
[FY2PS000]
That was i instead of your wages ?
[PS25F]
Instead of my wages .
[FY2PS000]
I see . So ?
[PS25F]
And er but a man a married man , it was twenty two shilling a week , you see ? An but the National Health for his er , he got medical treatment for himself , but there 's nothing for his family , or his children , they had to pay the Doctor .
[FY2PS000]
Was medical treatment very expensive , then ?
[PS25F]
Er yes , and no . Er the Doctor provided the medicine and if he visited you it was seven and sixpence each visit , and if you went to his surgery , I think it was four an either four and six , or three and six . That 's what it was .
[FY2PS000]
Mm . Did you notice the difference in how far your earnings went when you go got married ?
[PS25F]
Er oh yes , I got married in nineteen thirty five and er my er take-home pay then was would be round about three pound a week , which was a good wage , in those days . You see , my day rate , then , of course I was piece work , but my day rate then would be er er two pound twelve and six pence . Less , one and tenpence .
[FY2PS000]
And how did you find you managed , you and your wife , managed on that amount ?
[PS25F]
Oh we managed very nicely .
[FY2PS000]
Was she working ?
[PS25F]
No . No . Er now , I do n't know whether you 'll put this in your in your er talk , but er in Stapleford , if you er when you married , the girl got married er she got the good wishes of the er boss she worked with , in most of the industries , I 'm not saying all . Most of the industries , and w er the day she got married , she got her cards . She was no w no no question , she ha it was one of the laws of your firm . Now , as soon as you got married , they did not employ married women . [UNCLEAR] I mean I can mention the firms , there were several of them in Stapleford , because I know two , but er perhaps as well not to .
[FY2PS000]
So in fact , you were supporting both of you ? On what you earned ?
[PS25F]
Well erm my wife , as er as a tailoress , she could go to work , but she did n't . We manage we did manage , well w we managed , and we was able to g have our week 's holiday a year . Three pound a week was considered a good wage .
[FY2PS000]
So did you
[PS25F]
A
[FY2PS000]
save out of your weekly earnings to go on holiday ?
[PS25F]
Yes .
[FY2PS000]
How did you save ?
[PS25F]
Well er I think we put ours in the bank , actually .
[FY2PS000]
In the bank ?
[PS25F]
Yes .
[FY2PS000]
Yeah .
[PS25F]
Oh yes .
[FY2PS000]
Y you put so much ?
[PS25F]
Yes .
[FY2PS000]
away a week ?
[PS25F]
Oh we did n't er , any surplus went in the bank . Of course , er the er the hotels and such like , they were n't as expensive as they are today . You could get er a r a decent er er hotel or boarding house . The cheaper boarding houses was er would er be er four and sixpence a day , full board . And the dearer ones would be about six shilling , a week , full board .
[FY2PS000]
So how much would a week 's holiday for two cost you ?
[PS25F]
Oh , round about twenty pound .
[FY2PS000]
And when ? About what year would that be ?
[PS25F]
Er nineteen thirty five .
[FY2PS000]
Twenty pounds for a week 's holiday ?
[PS25F]
Yeah .
[FY2PS000]
That 's pretty good .
[PS25F]
Ti till nineteen , till nineteen forty , till the war broke out . Of course , then , ho holidays was all off . See , er now , coming to that , holidays , er you only had a week 's holiday , with no pay . There was a er And then you had bank holidays , with no pay . You had er two days at Christmas , Boxing day and Christmas day , er no pay . Er Easter , we had er Good Friday and Monday , no pay . Whitsuntide , er er one day , with no pay . Er August bank holiday , August bank holiday Monday , first Monday in the month , no pay . If you had a week 's holiday , still no pay . . They were the starvation years .