WMN: HEU_88

[PS2W4]

Ah . Can you er can you tell me wh wh wh where you were born Mr [ANONYMIZATION] ?

[PS2W5]

Yes in a little street it 's not there now , down here called [ANONYMIZATION] Street . There were seven houses there . And only yards and horses stables and things [UNCLEAR] round there you know , in them days . Then we come in here it was a repaired house this was . This street here , in nineteen what wa nineteen [UNCLEAR] eight I think . Aye . Yes [UNCLEAR] it was . Aye .

[PS2W4]

H how h h h h how many were in your family then ?

[PS2W5]

Well in this house ?

[PS2W4]

Yeah .

[PS2W5]

Well my mother had six children but the first baby died and we ere there was another five . [UNCLEAR] I think , there 's only two of us alive now . I 've got a sister in er Colwyn Bay somewhere she 'd living yes . Aye [UNCLEAR] and last time I seen her was about five years ago . And the children 's coming here aye , [UNCLEAR] . Ah all these , there was no yar houses across the road there . There were yards of slate here to there .

[PS2W4]

That 's on the other side of

[PS2W5]

Yes .

[PS2W4]

of [ANONYMIZATION] Street here .

[PS2W5]

Yes .

[PS2W4]

What did your what did your father did did did he do then ?

[PS2W5]

He worked in [UNCLEAR] but he used to go and relieve the sailors and firemen in the steam boats he used to go you know . When they were needed one . You know the man in charge of them was [ANONYMIZATION] they called him , always used to go and fetch him to go if they needed er or somebody lost their passes and [UNCLEAR] . Er and I went there as a boy after [UNCLEAR] engines and things you know , in [UNCLEAR] then , do you remember them ? No , steam engines [UNCLEAR] shuntings . They were coming down from the [ANONYMIZATION] Quarry , bigger engines . [UNCLEAR] They were a little bigger than this the ones they had shunting here . There was two of them and they used to go all day at the quarry for to get bring the slates down to [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W4]

H how how old were you wh when you started ?

[PS2W5]

Fourteen .

[PS2W4]

Mm .

[PS2W5]

Yeah . Well yes . I 'm supposed just to answer you , that 's all is n't it .

[PS2W4]

Well no you No you you say anything that you want to add , that will you know fill in

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR]

[PS2W4]

all the gaps .

[PS2W5]

Aye fourteen I was . I think I 'd been Yes a few weeks couple of three weeks perhaps in the slate yard behind [UNCLEAR] there , they used to make slates for schools there . Oh there was about two dozen boys and a lot of men there , there was about a hundred working in that place then . Yeah . And then before that [UNCLEAR] boys used to go and gather cockles in the sand outside er not here , other side of [UNCLEAR] you know . And [UNCLEAR] bloody things here the whole time , these cockles were everywhere they were [UNCLEAR] we liked them , the boys did , aye . Ah . And there 's only me living you know [UNCLEAR] . I got er a nephew living in Leicester . Arnold his name is . And he comes here sometimes . And then I just go about myself all day . Perhaps to the beach [UNCLEAR] here , or passing the time [UNCLEAR] . Cos I had [UNCLEAR] you see . [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W4]

Wh when you started working as a lad , erm what did you have to do ?

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] when I went to [UNCLEAR] you mean ?

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

Before that other place . That p Oh I was doing nothing there only tidying up round there . If a ship had been there loading , well there was a couple of us boys used to tidy up after er after the [UNCLEAR] and things on there see . And we used to tidy up things like that . Er we did n't do much . Cos there were we were only getting about five bob a week aye . Aye . And then er [UNCLEAR] like like that . And er I joined this territorials they come and then I joined them , and we went to Camp Parkgate for a fortnight . We were we had n't been home a couple of two or three weeks [UNCLEAR] then the big war started , nineteen fourteen . Fourth of August so we had to go see . We were belonging to the territorials then . And then we had to go straight away there and we went different places , Northampton , s you know different places in the country like , in England . And and in Wales yeah we [UNCLEAR] forget where we were there . But we went to had a lot of joi jointer then joiners men . And we had to go to France then . Er Belgium and France where I was in we were in [UNCLEAR] . And we had n old naval guns . Old naval guns . Their muzzle was a long as from here to that door there .

[PS2W4]

About

[PS2W5]

Yes . From here to that door .

[PS2W4]

About eight feet long ?

[PS2W5]

Yes . The muzzle were [UNCLEAR] they had nothing else you see . They would n't give us [UNCLEAR] . I was a bugler , trumpeter with them . There was two of us on horses then , there was no motors then you know . No , only horses , horses dragging these big guns . About six horses on them . In each gun , four of them . Yeah and then the horses used to go down out to the line see . Well the Germans was shelling and these B things but we had sixty pounder guns then . They were very [UNCLEAR] short muzzle things , but them old things there like that , they were jumping when you were firing them you know . They were yeah .

[PS2W4]

What w what was it like when you you first w w went over there , I mean having been here in in [ANONYMIZATION] and then all of sudden finding yourself in France ?

[PS2W5]

Ah we feel oh we were we enjoyed ourselves there . That 's all I can remember ever . Yeah . But I come home , well [UNCLEAR] in the end . [UNCLEAR] lots more lads were killed do you see , lots of them eh ? Well there was thousands killed see the infantry was and there were loads more all round you see [UNCLEAR] ? Yeah . And all the country there then , well France we were first , then we shifted to Belgium . Nothing , only [UNCLEAR] and mud and dirt and everything else . And walking about up to here some of the times in mud . And we had on these shoes you know . Boots I mean t you know . Yes . [UNCLEAR] . And the first trench we went in , the communication trench was [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W4]

Was it ?

[PS2W5]

Aye [UNCLEAR] we was shifted about then , different places yeah . And er [UNCLEAR] I had a touch of a there was a gas shells dropped somewhere quite not far from me . And I had a snuff of that then [UNCLEAR] I was n't right for a while . I went down to Boulogne to an hospital there . [UNCLEAR] got better they sent me back . . Aye . [UNCLEAR] . Course my best friends were killed there . A m A man named Harold [ANONYMIZATION] from [UNCLEAR] , and while I was in that hospital with that bit of a gas shell , he er he g fellow came and told me there , to [UNCLEAR] Boulogne that he was dead , killed . Aye never [UNCLEAR] they never seen him after . A lot of them [UNCLEAR] getting killed there . But I was lucky [UNCLEAR] . [UNCLEAR] I remember when after it finished , I went back to [UNCLEAR] for a while [UNCLEAR] I went with [UNCLEAR] ports and things like . To different ships aye . Belonging to Liverpool and them places like that . And travelling round Ireland , travelling round Ireland all all round it , Cork all round with slates from here . Yes . The [UNCLEAR] a [UNCLEAR] good life you know . And sometimes [UNCLEAR] used to get a bit of a a bad storm ahead so we used to especially if you went from here to er North of Scotland round Cape [ANONYMIZATION] . [UNCLEAR] in bad weather we used to go [UNCLEAR] into what was it they called Long Hope or something and anchor there . Er well there 'd be a lot of us ships there then . About a dozen there . But we could n't go ashore until it got better ad then we went round the cape [UNCLEAR] after and down into Aberdeen see . That 's what we used to do with these ships . Aye . Aye [UNCLEAR] got to Bangor there and my father 's photo 's on that [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W4]

Is he ?

[PS2W5]

Aye . Have you got them here .

[PS2W4]

No I they 're in the archive [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W5]

Aye my father 's leaning on the bridge like that [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W4]

I have to I h I when I get to the office , I 'll h I 'll h I 'll have a look a bit closer .

[PS2W5]

Yes , you can see him . The [UNCLEAR] like that .

[PS2W4]

Yeah .

[PS2W5]

On a bridge , it 's like this was n't it . Bangor her name was . There was another ship the same as her called the [UNCLEAR] and another one called the Harrier . They had a few ships . They [ANONYMIZATION] , you heard of her ?

[PS2W4]

I 've heard of her

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] shelling ship she was .

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

Well my brother was with went with that one once a boy As a boy . But I took him first to Connor 's Quay to join a sh erm ship there . I forget her name . Well anyhow when we went there , I told er the captain like . Well what do you want ? he says to me . Well I 've been sent from Bangor . There was a sailing er what do they call it , a [UNCLEAR] here [UNCLEAR] and it was him that he asked would could you send a boy there . So I took my brother who was younger than me , about four or five years see . The first ship he went in , he was [UNCLEAR] for about two years . And then he left her and he went with this [ANONYMIZATION] [UNCLEAR] three masted top schooner she was , very fine ship . Aye . And then [UNCLEAR] I do n't know where he went after of course . I went different places [UNCLEAR] . I landed in the end me , on the railway . Bangor here .

[PS2W4]

Did you ?

[PS2W5]

Aye . Yes well we I I 'd been working on the Menai Suspension Bridge repa you know , when they were rep doing the repairing like . I went there and asked the fella for a job , and he says , How are you on heights ? he says . Oh I 'm alright , I says to him , I 've been in ships and [UNCLEAR] . Alright you can start , he says to me . And I were I was doing the job there th that 's how I started on working on shore . And er of course that job finished then . And er I had a brother in law on the railway there . So he told me to go and ask for a job there . I went I forget er No I do n't forget the name of the foreman . Jack [ANONYMIZATION] his name was anyhow . A bit of a rough chap you know , nice [UNCLEAR] but very rough [UNCLEAR] . What have you been doing before , he says to me . I told him I worked on the Menai Suspension Bridge . Oh you 're on [UNCLEAR] yes , go on , start tomorrow morning [UNCLEAR] he says to me , with Fighting Mack . There was a fella called Fighting Mack there . You [UNCLEAR] start with Fighting mack , in the tube there tomorrow . And that 's how I worked there . [UNCLEAR] er and then I think Oh I was there for about two years after

[PS2W4]

You so s so you worked in [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W5]

I worked there two years after my time . After er sixty five you know . Yeah . And then I 'd er aft finished then and miserable around here aye and in the town I used to get a job here and there . Th then you know from someone or or other . Well now anyhow I there 's only me here and I er was ninety three last birthday . Last September . Yeah I was born in eighteen ninety two see . I think I 'm the oldest one round here .

[PS2W4]

Yes I think you are .

[PS2W5]

Yeah I think so too .

[PS2W4]

I think so .

[PS2W5]

Aye cos I remember a lot of old people here . A lot of old sailors you know er in them days , when I was a kid aye .

[PS2W4]

W were there w was there a great seafaring

[PS2W5]

Ships sailing ships there were , have n't you seen the picture of them sailing ships .

[PS2W4]

I 've seen photographs but it 's , to have people who were actually there is quite rare really .

[PS2W5]

Well the ships were there , there was no steamboats in them days you know . w er only sailing boats and they used to be anchored here years ago , down on the beach there . And they used to call on [ANONYMIZATION] when they were giving the turns [UNCLEAR] to go there and load . My father was working loading [UNCLEAR] there . Er

[PS2W4]

Were a lot of people employed o on them er fo from [ANONYMIZATION] ?

[PS2W5]

Pardon ? Oh Yes yes , you know , five and six in some small schooners yes . But in the [ANONYMIZATION] was ten I think . They she belonged to she was iron ship she was to [ANONYMIZATION] . Yes . And she used to run from here to Hamburg and London . With slates and about nine crew on her . Nice ship she was too . My brother was with her for a [UNCLEAR] long while . Oh he was a proper sailor , different to me you see .

[PS2W4]

What 's the difference ?

[PS2W5]

Well er he started right . Started as a boy he did . I and I took to Connor 's Quay [UNCLEAR] as a sailing ship and I and then of course I had n't been much in sailing ships . I used to work as a boy I did on [UNCLEAR] . And then when I got er old enough I used to go in the gang like the men , and er get the same and [UNCLEAR] piece work we were working loading the ships . Loading the barrels . And wheeling them to the ship you know , then after you 'd been there a long time , well my father was a [UNCLEAR] down below and [UNCLEAR] I went to his shop then you see . That 's how we learnt . So in the ship was a a nice thing you know . Cos slates you know [UNCLEAR] going and rolling round and jumping [UNCLEAR] . Because they w they were n't shifting do you see . But there 's a funny thing , I was lucky in there . I was with Pamela , she come up , new ship you know then . And I was with her till I left her somewhere in Southampton , I 'd been in her a good while too . Somebody pinched something off me so , Bugger all this , I said , I left her there . And come home here . Well I went to [ANONYMIZATION] in oh about twelve months after that or less say , and er she wanted a man there , I went down there and asked could I have a job back you know . Well he was [UNCLEAR] just too late , he says , there 's a fellow from [UNCLEAR] Oh never mind , maybe a chance again . She was lost all hands aboard .

[PS2W4]

[UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W5]

In about a fortnight after it . Aye .

[PS2W4]

Good good .

[PS2W5]

And she was a new ship too , aye . She had a bad cargo see , they had n't er some [UNCLEAR] stuff and they had n't stored her properly and she turned over and they all got drowned . There was one chap with her , he 'd been in [ANONYMIZATION] oh for years . And his ship was [UNCLEAR] called [ANONYMIZATION] . He was from [UNCLEAR] and he 'd been out of work a long time . Willy , his name was , I remember him well . [UNCLEAR] he got lost and drowned with her . He was from [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W4]

And and [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W5]

Aye , I 'm lucky you see .

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

Well I 'm not to brag too much [UNCLEAR] I I 've been lucky have n't I ?

[PS2W4]

Very lucky .

[PS2W5]

Aye . Yes aye . And er this is what I do , Well I used to do jobs [UNCLEAR] round here for a while or I 've chucked it up now aye . I do n't get nothing [UNCLEAR] . [UNCLEAR] cos I worked two years all the time I had a few bob for that extra [UNCLEAR] that 's all . Cos I ca n't get to what you call this a thing now , social security . The the guy ca n't get that [UNCLEAR] cos I had a few shillings more after working [UNCLEAR] two years [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W4]

Oh I see .

[PS2W5]

Aye .

[PS2W4]

That 's not fair r really is it .

[PS2W5]

No well that 's the way the country 's doing now is n't it . I do n't think anybody works overtime now do they , over their age ?

[PS2W4]

Very rarely .

[PS2W5]

Aye I should think so , unless they 're working for themselves right . There is some fella he 's working in his back yard and he 's hammering all day , I I wish he 'd give it up . But he 's not out there today either , he started this morning , I ca n't hear him now . Ah .

[PS2W4]

You said that erm or you implied that it was important to stow the c the erm slates v v very carefully .

[PS2W5]

Oh [UNCLEAR] Oh yes . You had to store them . There was what they called gangs you see , you know they had planks did n't they . Have you ever seen them [UNCLEAR] ?

[PS2W4]

I 've seen photographs .

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] . And they used to Two men on the shore loading , course there was men counting the slates do you see . There was [UNCLEAR] thousands and thousands . And er then th one man used to load the barrel , and the other man was to put them down the plank . And of course there was people from the town then getting a job like holding [UNCLEAR] like this and [UNCLEAR] fella on the stage you see , they were n't regular men , but they were getting a job and so much for doing it yes , just the same . But the the regular men were getting more money than [UNCLEAR] but er And then there used to be men down there , storing the slate , regular men on the outside , my father was one of them . Say if there was eight gangs , there would be [UNCLEAR] eight eight of them there , and eight of them here . Aye . Storing them . Packing them up [UNCLEAR] nice you know and chocking them tight so as they would n't shift you see , when the ship was rolling .

[PS2W4]

When er w each gang , would they negotiate the er the bargain individually or would they be paid Would every gang be paid a f a flat rate . A flat piece rate .

[PS2W5]

The the regular men were er mates sharing together you see .

[PS2W4]

I see .

[PS2W5]

But the others that was getting a job from the town ,

[PS2W4]

Mhm .

[PS2W5]

were getting the money what it was worth [UNCLEAR] . Sometimes be more or less . [UNCLEAR] used to be about few p er shillings more do you see , er a tonne yes . Aye .

[PS2W4]

Were erm only certain men allowed or er say were trusted with the job of stowing

[PS2W5]

Oh they were regular men . Oh yes , they were regular men . Yes the others were only hobblers they called them .

[PS2W4]

Hobblers ?

[PS2W5]

Aye you know , holding them on the plank and th passing them to the But the the men that were stowing them , they were regular men on the They knew how to do it see . And they used to pack them up so nice and tight [UNCLEAR] till they were full up inside [UNCLEAR] . And then they did n't shift at all see . No .

[PS2W4]

When you started on that gang , wh wh wh what did you start as then ? Did you start as [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W5]

Oh I started as a boy .

[PS2W4]

Yeah .

[PS2W5]

Er on the doing small jobs on the quay there like you know , cleaning up and things like that . After a ship [UNCLEAR] . But when I got older , [UNCLEAR] well I was getting the same pay as the regular men then . Piece work you know . But the war come and [UNCLEAR] . And I was six years or something away . Er

[PS2W4]

Six years ?

[PS2W5]

Oh aye all through the war . on August the fourth nineteen fourteen . Fourth [UNCLEAR] I had to go from here . My mother was sitting here on a chair yeah , when I come home from there . Oh Dick , she says to me , she called she called me Dick and I used to tease her . I thought [UNCLEAR] I used to I used to say to her sometimes I 'll have to go off [UNCLEAR] story . Dick she used to call me . I thought you named me Richard ? Well I have , Dick . she says .

[PS2W4]

[PS2W5]

Yeah . Every time she said that , I used to tease her then . Aye aye [UNCLEAR] . But I remember once going er to school . Now you go to school , the [UNCLEAR] school there . Well I was no bigger than this like and er [UNCLEAR] go to school straight away Dick . Alright mama , I used to say to her . [UNCLEAR] after [UNCLEAR] been down there . And to [UNCLEAR] I went along that beach in them days you know th and straight to the sea , playing with some wood . Somebody had been her , fetching me to see that I was [UNCLEAR] playing truant , [UNCLEAR] landed in school . Well I could see a woman coming along the beach there , it was high up and [UNCLEAR] down there . Well this woman is coming like the devil if ever she is. [UNCLEAR] tell it was my mother . And she got hold of me by the neck like th [UNCLEAR] I told you to go to school did n't I . She says , Look me right [UNCLEAR] . And hammered on the door so [UNCLEAR] one of the teache and it was the class where I was too happened to be by the door there . And she says , Here you are , here he is . And do what you like with him she says . [UNCLEAR] And that 's where I was aye . I did n't play truant after that . [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W4]

No I 'm not surprised .

[PS2W5]

No . Yeah . Aye aye .

[PS2W4]

The you said , that you were away for six years .

[PS2W5]

Er in the war ?

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

Oh yes yes .

[PS2W4]

Did any of them the lads that you the men that you went away with . Did they come back ?

[PS2W5]

Not all .

[PS2W4]

Not all of them ?

[PS2W5]

Oh no .

[PS2W4]

Were any of them .

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] there 's a couple of my best friends

[PS2W4]

Mm .

[PS2W5]

er Well the one that [UNCLEAR] best was , he used to [UNCLEAR] he was older than me but and er I was very sorry . I went I said [UNCLEAR] gas shell drop close to me and that that gave me a bit of a right to go an d to the hospital . Well I did n't [UNCLEAR] quite to the hospital . I went to Oh that 's eleven o'clock that is . Ah . It 's a bit fast I think [UNCLEAR] . Is n't it ?

[PS2W4]

I think it is yes .

[PS2W5]

Yes about five minutes fast .

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] . Aye er the [UNCLEAR] when I was [UNCLEAR] I got better and [UNCLEAR] I got down to [UNCLEAR] and there was a fella come to look and see me . Well she says , Gentleman wants to see you . She says , [UNCLEAR] and I said , No [UNCLEAR] . So he come then and he told me that that best friend of mine was killed . He lived down the road there . [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W4]

Did did you find it d er difficult t t to believe when you were told ?

[PS2W5]

Well I could see him all the time see .

[PS2W4]

Mm .

[PS2W5]

You know in in the hospital I could s see him in my face all the time . Yeah . And it was [UNCLEAR] . That 's a long time ago is n't it .

[PS2W4]

Yes it is .

[PS2W5]

Aye .

[PS2W4]

R it is .

[PS2W5]

Nineteen eighteen was it when they finished I think , yes .

[PS2W4]

Mm

[PS2W5]

Nineteen fourteen , fourth of August we went from here .

[PS2W4]

When you went e when you went away , what did you think you were going into then ? Because you were only a young lad were n't you [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W5]

Yeah . Well er I did n't we did n't know . Er to tell you the truth . We used to laugh and everything together , going from Bangor here . And going to England one place we did n't [UNCLEAR] enough do you see , so we were going Then we went to Northampton and different places like that , shifting about for a while . To get enough

[PS2W4]

[UNCLEAR]

[PS2W5]

Yeah .

[PS2W4]

So you were

[PS2W5]

Cos there was different er things do you see , infantry , Royal Welsh and things like that , they were going the same as us . Looking for men , aye to go . Ah . Till there was no c no man er after eighteen round here then er in them days you know . No . And we never used to [UNCLEAR] we were [UNCLEAR] about three times home in that er five years time . And many did n't come no . Oh .

[PS2W4]

What was it like

[PS2W5]

I wo what you did n't like to pass anybody

[PS2W4]

Mm .

[PS2W5]

m er mother of one of them that was killed you see .

[PS2W4]

No ?

[PS2W5]

No I cou You 'd go round the other street would n't you . Ah .

[PS2W4]

Wh wh wh why was that ?

[PS2W5]

Oh you did n't like to see them , they 'd only come and cry to you . Aye .

[PS2W4]

W was it also because there were so many of them .

[PS2W5]

Oh there were [UNCLEAR] many of them killed you see .

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

Thousands was n't it . [UNCLEAR] the country all well hundreds and hundreds from here . Yeah .

[PS2W4]

From [ANONYMIZATION] ?

[PS2W5]

Yes well from as many boys that had seen the age , they had to go . [UNCLEAR] like them do you see , the this side , them [UNCLEAR] people they were volunteers , proper volunteers do you see , they were . But they after they had finished , they the South African war and things was before then was n't it .

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

Well I remember the South African war too . Cos I had an uncle there . And my grandmother used to live on the beach there . In a house facing there and her son was one of then Caernarfon er what do you call them er militia like [UNCLEAR] and they had to go [UNCLEAR] talking with me and a little One of the first little motor cars like this . Not an open thing you know , little bus like aye . And he was er from [UNCLEAR] it was Jack [ANONYMIZATION] I remember him well , an old man . Driving this , he used to go on the [UNCLEAR] by the by the clock you know [UNCLEAR] in them days , the first motor [UNCLEAR] . Aye . And he come there , and who was it come home from Africa , but my uncle , my mother 's son [UNCLEAR] Hello David , you 've come home Davey , she says , you 've come home . Yes , he says .

[PS2W4]

From South Africa ?

[PS2W5]

Aye . South Africa war he was [UNCLEAR] . Well I remember the South African war [UNCLEAR] . Aye . [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] this and that then the old women used to go to the door , [UNCLEAR] shilling [UNCLEAR] . And look this grate here 's the same thing now as it was in nineteen O eight and I make a fire in it everyday but I have n't made it today . I I was nearly doing it too . Yeah [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W4]

This is the original

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] look at it . Nineteen O eight [UNCLEAR] put the match in there and have the coal and the wood is in there ready .

[PS2W4]

Oh I see .

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] it is . But in them days do you see , we had er a kettle here and a kettle there but we do n't bother with now . I 've got a gas stove in the back there .

[PS2W4]

Would this get hot here ?

[PS2W5]

Yea oh yes the kettle 'd be there .

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

And another one here .

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

Hot my mother used to call it she was English , she was er Cockney born but she come to Bangor when she was eight years ten years of age . Working in the [UNCLEAR] with some people from er she was adopted because she w lost her mother and father . So these women were coming Well they were man and wife aye from London Tottenham Court she lived . She was born . And brought her to with them see and then she stayed here she never went out of here then . Oh and they were working in the [UNCLEAR] there where that job centre is now it was a big pub . You know .

[PS2W4]

Was it ?

[PS2W5]

That 's where the women come see . F the people come from London to that . Ah it was a big pub . I forget it 's na the name of it . [UNCLEAR] got it somewhere in this house but I 've told some chap , [UNCLEAR] [UNCLEAR] a bit of a Welsh there er I said , Now [UNCLEAR] but it was Welsh there . . [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W4]

I do n't speak Welsh .

[PS2W5]

No no that 's [UNCLEAR] . That 's what we say [UNCLEAR] . We still say that [UNCLEAR] that 's what the Frenchmen used to say it in French aye . Pas beaucoup er n non compris I do n't understand .

[PS2W4]

Mm .

[PS2W5]

But [UNCLEAR] say that still [UNCLEAR] . Aye aye ca n't help it now . Stuck in you somehow . Oh aye yeah .

[PS2W4]

What was it er when your mother erm sort of lived here , di di did she learn to speak your Welsh ?

[PS2W5]

No she did n't er bother .

[PS2W4]

No ?

[PS2W5]

No . No she did n't bother . Er but there was er She come here with them people and the [UNCLEAR] they kept that big [UNCLEAR] and they forget [UNCLEAR] and after they had died and they [UNCLEAR] she went across the road to the the this [UNCLEAR] here now . A [UNCLEAR] here now . And they want to put that out they do . Aye er this [UNCLEAR] there . But then she got married and we lived down the road there for a while till they repaired these , they made these There was very old houses these are . This site here barring them two in the top there . The two on this side , they started to build them there see , renew them . But the wa war broke out and they just made these up . But this is the largest of them this house .

[PS2W4]

Is it ?

[PS2W5]

Yes . Did n't you see the kitchen eh ?

[PS2W4]

I I was very surprised when I came in , it 's enormous is n't it ?

[PS2W5]

Yes . There 's you can put four double beds in the front room . There is [UNCLEAR] for this er my sister here , she was [UNCLEAR] after my mother died and everything like that . But she was there [UNCLEAR] and you know , she wants something here and wants it there too . Do as you like , I says , I did n't bother myself aye . And then she was buying furniture and things like that [UNCLEAR] is here too somewhere . Aye and the younger she was . Aye there she is . Perha perhaps you 'd know her . And here she is older there , look , in the town .

[PS2W4]

Oh .

[PS2W5]

Aye . And

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

She 's younger still here . [UNCLEAR] I had three sisters you know . But the two the one the eldest is dead and the youngest see . But I 've got one living in Colwyn Bay . Yeah .

[PS2W4]

Mm . Ho how old is she ?

[PS2W5]

She 's about three years younger than I .

[PS2W4]

Gosh .

[PS2W5]

Yeah . And the children are alive too .

[PS2W4]

Mm . Thank you .

[PS2W5]

Er there 's only er old people from here would know them see . And she used to do all the messages like that after my mother died see . Ah .

[PS2W4]

How er h when did your m m m mother die then ? Ho

[PS2W5]

Oh I 've no idea . Af after the First World War . Yeah .

[PS2W4]

Mm .

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] she was eighty . Forget that , eighty she was . Course she 'd been working hard well er not working hard you know just in the [UNCLEAR] cleaning [UNCLEAR] like that . Course all young w women used to go and skivvy as they called them did n't they . Used to go ski er cleaning and that 's where they used to work , but now they go to shops do n't they . Aye . There was seven shops [UNCLEAR] in this little place here . There 's none here now . Only that [UNCLEAR] now that 's what they sell things there th they 've started there . On the beach there , there 's a shop there now . But there were seven in all these streets here and we never used they never used to go to town . We never used to go Here we used to be and on the beach there .

[PS2W4]

What did they sell , these er shops ?

[PS2W5]

Oh er everything you know , meat and there was one [UNCLEAR] shop down the bottom of the street here , my mother come here one morning , she used to get meat there . And er oh she says to m She could n't did n't speak Welsh but she told what the old man told her in that shop there . He says there 's er that I e I have n't got a chicken for you today , a kitchen for you today . Instead of saying chicken , he says , I have n't got a kitchen for you . Aye . And that old man I 'm telling you the God 's truth , I watched him when I was coming [UNCLEAR] school many a time , used to go to Anglesey with a rope in his pocket here . And buy a sheep and come home with it and that over the bridge with it , all along and along er that road there and th and when we used to come from that school in [UNCLEAR] , he used to be coming with a sheep on the string like this and the poor thing , I used to look at the old sheep and he often used to be tired you see . And he 'd go like this [UNCLEAR] with his knee you know , [UNCLEAR] that 's how she was shifted . To here . And he ki he was killing them in the back yard there . Yes . But he was a proper butcher . He was cutting it proper shapes you know like they are today [UNCLEAR] . But he was a proper But it was in his back yard , he was killing it and hanging it up in the window there . In the bottom of the street there .

[PS2W4]

Yeah .

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] the old houses them [UNCLEAR] aye . Yeah . Er that I remember [UNCLEAR] come in laughing saying that he had no kitchen for him for her . . I laughed We used to have a laugh about that very often . Aye . It was [UNCLEAR] . .

[PS2W4]

Apart from the b b butcher 's shop . Er wh wh wh what other shops were there ?

[PS2W5]

Oh they was er selling everything , potatoes and er carrots and things like that [UNCLEAR] you know . About seven of them , but they were in different places . But there was one shop up the road there , er [UNCLEAR] it was n the Welsh names they were or most you see . And there 'd been like a half door going to the shop like there you know . But behind that t the bottom half [UNCLEAR] I still remember it though , and when we opened that [UNCLEAR] . And then the old man might be in the back yard somewhere and he could here that the bell going [UNCLEAR] . It was a big as this .

[PS2W4]

[UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W5]

Ah .

[PS2W4]

What almost a foot ?

[PS2W5]

Yes . A big bell like that .

[PS2W4]

Good heavens .

[PS2W5]

Aye .

[PS2W4]

Enough to make anyone jump is n't it ?

[PS2W5]

Oh yeah . [UNCLEAR] . Well he was selling swedes , everything , potatoes , carrots and things like that [UNCLEAR] . I my day [UNCLEAR] tell you , I do n't thing there was many shops with a tin in the sh in the window . They were all in But the tinned stuff , everywhere now is n't it . But it was n't then . No . . All in er at the counter or in er boxes or in casks like this . Everything like that then . But now er in tins . And people were saying in them days , [UNCLEAR] wo n't live long now . Will tins . So the old people are saying , and we were wondering as children like yes , Why [UNCLEAR] Oh it 's all tinned stuff now . Aye it 's no good . [UNCLEAR] cos they used to have [UNCLEAR] and a big handled my mother had sa saucepan and [UNCLEAR] as big as this . Like that .

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

And a big handle [UNCLEAR] sticking up here . Full of scouse .

[PS2W4]

Ah scouse .

[PS2W5]

Scouse .

[PS2W4]

Yeah .

[PS2W5]

Everything in it you know . Ah lovely stuff eh ? You do n't get them today like that . I makes them myself in the back yard there I do it .

[PS2W4]

Do you ?

[PS2W5]

Aye . [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W4]

How ? Sorry .

[PS2W5]

Meat , potatoes well er mostly t s turnips you know . we er swede they call the other is n't it ? Carrots and meat and good stuff , and then they used to put a little flour to thicken it like this do you see , with a big spoon like that . [UNCLEAR] and pulled this out like that . Well they say it 'll come out like that see .

[PS2W4]

Mm .

[PS2W5]

Everybody w looking but when my father and all was there , there was nine then so there was more so we had to go in th in that big room there and eat off the table there then . Cos

[PS2W4]

[UNCLEAR]

[PS2W5]

[PS2W4]

All of you ?

[PS2W5]

Yes . Aye . Aye . [UNCLEAR] oh my mother was a strong woman , yes and good cook too . But she 'd learnt a job in That 's what she was doing you see , in the [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W4]

W she she came from erm

[PS2W5]

She come from London , here a young girl . She 'd lost her parents .

[PS2W4]

Yeah .

[PS2W5]

And er her father and mother [UNCLEAR] died , but she lived till she was eighty . And she come here with these people from London , she had a good place with them , plenty of good food and everything . In that [UNCLEAR] there , where that job centre is now . And then across the road she went afterwards , to that [UNCLEAR] there , She had a lovely time there . Cos working men did n't go in there , th in them days you know , into that small [UNCLEAR] . All er p er people in big high jobs . Aye .

[PS2W4]

Right .

[PS2W5]

But now , every Dick , Tom and Harry goes in that little [UNCLEAR] there now .

[PS2W4]

Yes .

[PS2W5]

Well they did n't in them days . They did n't hardly go when I was going . I was started to go there . . Yeah . Only I went away to work then aye and er [UNCLEAR] was n't coming home very often .

[PS2W4]

W What w what did your mother think of here ? Having sort of c c come into an area which was Welsh speaking ?

[PS2W5]

Well she come with the people , English from London and then with them in that [UNCLEAR] there .

[PS2W4]

Mm .

[PS2W5]

That 's where she was .

[PS2W4]

Mm . It must have been a bit of a shock to her .

[PS2W5]

She she was young .

[PS2W4]

Mm .

[PS2W5]

Ten years of age she was .

[PS2W4]

Only ten ?

[PS2W5]

Ten yes . But she never spoke Welsh . But I think she understood us and acquired talking to ourselves in Welsh you know . Yeah . Oh yes , she she knew what [UNCLEAR] cos we could see it by her face . . Aye . Aye [UNCLEAR] . And [UNCLEAR] I remember her father coming here from [UNCLEAR] . Young [UNCLEAR] and he married some g young girl from here you know . Aye .

[PS2W4]

You remember that do you ?

[PS2W5]

Yeah . Oh yeah .

[PS2W4]

When you came can I just sort of take you back again ? When you came back

[PS2W5]

Aye you ask me what what you want to know . And then I Well it 's no use me telling me [UNCLEAR] because they 're no good to you are they them ?

[PS2W4]

No I do n't No that that puts flesh on the bones .

[PS2W5]

Oh aye yeah yeah . Yeah .

[PS2W4]

When you came back from away after the war , d did you notice any any changes here ?

[PS2W5]

Yes er [UNCLEAR] the missing of the old friends you know , to start with yes .

[PS2W4]

Mm .

[PS2W5]

Er and hardly nothing to do here . But er I was going back to my own job [UNCLEAR] you see , and then I went to see if the And then I I do n't know what happened . There was something er [UNCLEAR] Oh well I went away again somewhere . [UNCLEAR] and then I went on the railway . A little The reason why I went there , my brother was living two or three [UNCLEAR] here . And he said says to me , I can get you a job on the rai railway , he says to me . You see so I went went there and that 's how I got there . Well I 'd been on the Menai Suspension Bridge before . Aye they were repairing it then . We had to go up heights then did n't we . Aye .

[PS2W4]

What did you used to do on the on the bridge then ?

[PS2W5]

Oh well I say there was fitters , I used to h er be handy with them . And lifting the heavy things and things , yeah . Oh it was heavy but I was used to heavy stuff on [UNCLEAR] . Cos er when you 're loading a ship you 're you 're handling yourself about twenty tonnes before dinner . With your hands like this . Loading the barrow with twenty tonnes . And and wheeling it so far like that . And then the other fella will take it to the plank .

[PS2W4]

Yeah .

[PS2W5]

To put them down . And he 'd have to put that I remember one man that was counting like this , he used to count them by the three you know . There was two or three men that did like . Of course they knew and they had a pin in o in their hand to stick every hundred like that see . Counting three like that . Thousands was [UNCLEAR] in no time , they 'd count tonnes . And I put one morning , s seven tonnes before dinner in . Aye .

[PS2W4]

Who was responsible for for calculating the number of slates then ?

[PS2W5]

Oh there was a they had er er th er counters they called them . But we called them [UNCLEAR] in Welsh do you see . They say there was oh half a dozen counters there you know . But there was one man m in er in you see them little red huts that 's on [UNCLEAR] ? He was there . He he knew how much every ship carried you see , and how much slate they wanted to get rid of there . [UNCLEAR] Aberdeen , different [UNCLEAR] slates going there . They were thicker and smaller you see . Because the weather was bad there was n't it .

[PS2W4]

I see .

[PS2W5]

But in Ireland , Dublin and Belfast , the lovely best slates you know , used to go there , to Ireland . Best slates . Ah b a Scotland there was different place altogether for slate . Aye . And they used to count it like that [UNCLEAR] and every hundred they stick a pin in see . And they had a slate in their hand , square slate like this . And they used to mark the hundred and then go [UNCLEAR] there again , take the other pin out and go like that you see . Counting them all the time like that . Yes they counted thousands of them . Well they [UNCLEAR] they knew how to do it did n't they ? They were used to it . They had a say there was two or three counters , this man in that part had made the cargo already before they started see . [UNCLEAR] one man er that had so many hundred apiece or so many coun sizes say , different sizes [UNCLEAR] . And then they used to go with their slate and and they knew it altogether [UNCLEAR] and then the counter turns and turns like that . And they do n't do it now . They made the rope . [UNCLEAR] how the ships finished here . They belonged to they were [UNCLEAR] ships you know , but they had one sailing ship , the [ANONYMIZATION] herself , They made a road into [UNCLEAR] quarry you see . And instead of a ship going from here to Aberdeen , [UNCLEAR] she might be a fortnight going there , with bad weather [UNCLEAR] . Going to different places , windbound we used to go . Because we boys used to like the windbound [UNCLEAR] lying and talking and in the galley and smelling of the [UNCLEAR] coming from the galley , all the saucepans and things like that . You know . Aye [UNCLEAR] . Aye well you see it [UNCLEAR] we used to [UNCLEAR] it does n't matter how she jumped and rolled , we were eating just the same . But if a young fella started you know , he could n't d eat you know for a while long time . He got sick do you see , and lie down . Yeah . And we used to say , [UNCLEAR] you 're alright , come one . [UNCLEAR] we 've been the same [UNCLEAR] before when we started . . Aye . Yes aye .

[PS2W4]

How long did it take for your stomach to settle down then ?

[PS2W5]

Oh a good while .

[PS2W4]

Yes ?

[PS2W5]

Yeah . You were afraid to see her shifting . . Oh yeah [UNCLEAR] all the time . We used to tell Well the old men used to tell us , You 'd be alright [UNCLEAR] used to it . But we used to tell these young when they c Erm young ones come when we were going all [UNCLEAR] . Aye . I remember one fella [UNCLEAR] she was rolling and I was [UNCLEAR] in the galley . And with a frying pan full of some stuff there , [UNCLEAR] very nice though . And he come there and luckily he went on top of the table to lie down [UNCLEAR] . He had to [UNCLEAR] and sick , he was vomiting see . Well [UNCLEAR] we used to get a bucket and throw it over the v over like that . And the old men used to do it before us aye . You 'd go you would n't feel it at all , you 'd be in your glory there after after about a month . I used to be All the lads the same age as me there . Yeah . And then down here was all s sailing ship there . Well do you see the photos of them on that [UNCLEAR] has she . I hope s

[PS2W4]

She has yes .

[PS2W5]

I hope she 's bringing them back aye . Well she will [UNCLEAR] up there . . Aye . They 're not new houses there , they 're not very old are they ?

[PS2W4]

Not relatively speaking , no .

[PS2W5]

No . Oh th these are old but these are er second repair these are these two . Th told you them two in the top started new but the war broke out see and er then they [UNCLEAR] this up [UNCLEAR] . [UNCLEAR] This was a terrible place in them days aye . All kinds of More people living here very old you know then .

[PS2W4]

Yes ?

[PS2W5]

Yes . Yeah there were . Of course I remember them [UNCLEAR] eighties and [UNCLEAR] nineties here . And they used to work . Well they had nothing after like . There was no dole or nothing like this they had . There were only workhouses and like that for some of them [UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W4]

How did the old ones [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W5]

Eh ?

[PS2W4]

How did they old ones survive then ?

[PS2W5]

Well God knows to tell you the truth there . They were er [UNCLEAR] well they were different to us , they were n't going nowhere from here and er they had no best clothes only same clothes mostly for days and Sundays is n't it , same . Er there were some like [UNCLEAR] look here Tell you what 's made the difference [UNCLEAR] . I remember well , ten pubs in here , round this quarter . Ten .

[PS2W4]

Good heavens .

[PS2W5]

And there 's only two here now see . [UNCLEAR] there in [UNCLEAR] and er where 's the other ? On the beach there , the [ANONYMIZATION] .

[PS2W4]

Oh yes .

[PS2W5]

And th that 's bigger now . That 's that used to be the part there that 's gone big there , was sailors [UNCLEAR] . [UNCLEAR] was given it I think , all the sailors used to old sailors after they gone too old , was going in there all the day and a big fire there . Well I 've been myself . Going there , big fire [UNCLEAR] used to smoke pipes like that , in there . There used to be [UNCLEAR] used to shunt them out did n't they . And the lads were glad to go there . Well I was n't married but I used to go in there and I used to come home er say in Winter if I come home for a w week or two , I go in there , and sit by the fire and have a yard . And they tell us which boat [UNCLEAR] old men been and what th See that 's how we learned did n't we .

[PS2W4]

I see .

[PS2W5]

Yeah .

[PS2W4]

W what happened when things began to to go down as regards the ships then ?

[PS2W5]

Oh everybody was going poor was n't they [UNCLEAR] . Some [UNCLEAR] well I myself I was lucky I had a job with my brother in law , he was working there on the railway and he knew them well . But er well he he was from that part of the town , Westend , that way you know . You know Westend do you ?

[PS2W4]

I do yes .

[PS2W5]

He was from th that way do you see . But he got married my sister and lived in [UNCLEAR] house down there and er that 's how I got a job there . He went and p pushed me in somehow or other you know . And I went then and I and cos the b he to asked this man see , the foreman like there , and then er he gave me a job . Well he er he asked where I 'd been working and what could I do and and [UNCLEAR] I was young then aye . And I 'm old now , but I feel champion though . [UNCLEAR] er be ninety four er next September . If I 'm alive that is ? Oh ninety three I am , are n't I now ? I 'm ninety three now and I go in this back yard do something every time . I 've got a big back yard here . I 'm cutting grass there now but it 's cold today I cut that [UNCLEAR] with a big scissor like this . Aye . Yeah . Oh I 'll go there and finish that perhaps this afternoon or tomorrow , anytime there 's no-one 's to go there only me now is n't it . And coal fire I make . I was going to light it I I 've been lighting it until er the beginning of the week I think . So I have n't lit it now . It 's ready to put a match into but if it gets a bit colder now today night I 'll put a match in there see .

[PS2W4]

I think you might need

[PS2W5]

And it 'll b Eh ?

[PS2W4]

I think you might n n need it cos it 's a bit chilly today .

[PS2W5]

Yes I feel a bit now . [UNCLEAR] the back door 's there see . [UNCLEAR] wind is coming from the North here . We get a lot of wind here , we had a lot here the other night . [UNCLEAR] . What night was it , Monday night [UNCLEAR]

[PS2W4]

Yes it was .

[PS2W5]

[UNCLEAR] I reckon was n't it . Everywhere was going yes .

[PS2W4]

Well I had to replace a s er two slates on on my roof .

[PS2W5]

Oh you replace it where you all living ?

[PS2W4]

[UNCLEAR] .

[PS2W5]

Oh w I 've heard of the name but I do n't know where it is either .

[PS2W4]

It 's near [ANONYMIZATION] .

[PS2W5]

Oh aye Well I 've never been that way see . No . Yes [UNCLEAR] er

[PS2W4]

Well thank you very m much Mr [ANONYMIZATION] .

[PS2W5]

Oh yes , if I can say anything [UNCLEAR] sometime .

[PS2W4]

Would you like to hear some of it ?

[PS2W5]

No .