WMN: t3_1mcyw7_t1_cc8127x

[TITLE]

I don't think talking on the phone in the car is any more dangerous than driving with passengers. CMV

[rageraptor]

I saw one of the studies they did about this - people were being asked difficult word and math problems that took a lot of concentration while driving an obstacle course. Of course they did poorly. But talking on the phone *in real life* is just as dangerous as driving with passengers. It is much more likely that a person is driving down the same path they always do, to work or school or the store, and it's just inane stuff like gossip or football they talk about. So, I believe the studies are misleading, and that if talking on phones is illegal than so should be driving with passengers.

[roontish12]

I believe that what's illegal is **holding a phone to your ear** while you're driving. Since it takes away half of your control over the vehicle. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's illegal to use a hands free bluetooth through your speaker to talk on the phone while driving.

[Bhorzo]

By talking on the phone do you mean: 1) speakerphone 2) holding the phone in your hand and/or using your fingers to press things on the touchscreen ? These 2 things are very different from each other.

[rawkuts]

Funnily enough, when it comes to distracted driving they're not that different.

[Bhorzo]

I strongly disagree. One allows you to use 2 hands during driving. The other only allows you to use 1 hand. That's a significant handicap. One allows you to keep your eyes on the road at all times. The other - if you need to press buttons on a touchscreen, or look at the display - forces you to look away from the road.

[username_6916]

Ever try to change gears without a hands-free handset?

[TOUCHER_OF_SHEEP]

You don't have to reach over with your hands to make a call or to terminate it. If you have an entirely hands-free operation that includes turning on and off calls without moving your hands, I agree, but otherwise, there's the obvious downside of moving your hands away from the wheel.

[MySafeWordIsReddit]

Talking with other drivers does not require you to use your hands. Using a cell phone does. That is what causes problems - you have to take a hand off the wheel, which gives you much less control. That's also why using bluetooth or something like that is just fine. Edit: after reading Amablue's post, I'm wrong - the use of hands is only one problem, but it still probably contributes.

[AnAverageRocket]

blue tooth.

[Amablue]

[STA-CITE]> So, I believe the studies are misleading, and that if talking on phones is illegal than so should be driving with passengers. [END-CITE]You're saying the studies where people have to answer word and math problems are misleading right? What about this study? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR2008120201066.html [STA-CITE]> Drivers talking on a cell phone are more distracted and more prone to error than if they were speaking with a friend sitting next to them in the car, a new report finds. [END-CITE][STA-CITE]> "The issue with cell phones is a concept called attention," [..] "When you're on the cell phone, it appears as though the process of talking with the cell phone may have an impact on one's attention and ability to visualize what's going on in the environment, because you are focused in on an abstract concept called the telephone." [END-CITE]If you compare talking to someone next to you and talking to someone on the phone, the flow of the conversation is different. The person in the passenger seat is aware of the conditions of the road just as you are, and you pause and resume the conversation depending on road conditions, even unconsciously. Whereas when you're on the phone, your mind is away, focusing on the conversation going on in your ear, not the conversation going on around you.

[rageraptor]

Hmm.. It is difficult to argue with that. However, [STA-CITE]> "Drivers talking on the cell phone just blew by the exit," Drews said. "The phenomenon here is you talk on the cell phone, realize once you hang up, 'I'm not here.'" [END-CITE]I find it difficult to believe that so many people would just blow through an exit through a normal conversation. But if the study says it happened, then it did. However, I have two things to nitpick about the study. 1) The sample size was small enough that it cannot be extrapolated into human kind in general. Furthermore, they were all young people - the highest age was 26. Both the small sample size and young age make this study less than clear. 2) Again, they have a similar problem as to the obstacle course I mentioned. The route was unfamiliar. The majority of people drive familiar routes the majority of the week. Also, once they are familiar with a town and know where the streets and exits are, it becomes less important to make the exit, and also easier to automatically take it. Next on this item, is that I've read (sorry, no citations) that people "check out" so to speak, when they are driving familiar roads. People are often not fully conscious and in the now - It's why doing something by habit is easier than doing the same thing once you become self conscious about yourself and your activity. One last note, just because a telephone is an "abstract concept" doesn't mean anything. I can't say the results of the study are absolutely wrong, even if I do believe they are misleading, but I can say that finding a correlation (however accurate or inaccurate) does not mean the scientist's hypothesized reasons for why are true. At least in this case. This last paragraph doesn't support my point, I'm just saying.

[r3m0t]

There are flaws in every possible piece of evidence, but unless you have any evidence that *doesn't* have those flaws (or has less flaws in general), there's no point in you pointing them out. [STA-CITE]> The sample size was small enough that it cannot be extrapolated into human kind in general. [END-CITE]No, it wasn't. Also, it's still better than no information. [STA-CITE]> the highest age was 26 [END-CITE]Are you suggesting people get better at driving or using phones when they get older? As far as I know, this isn't true. After teenage riskiness is gone, driving skills only deteriorate with age. [STA-CITE]> The route was unfamiliar [END-CITE]So is your view changed to "talking on the phone in the car is no more dangerous than driving with passengers *when on familiar routes*"?

[rageraptor]

No. I said that people don't drive on new routes every day. Most people usually go to places they already know. Even if half the people miss an exit when on a new route, that would leave a great portion unaffected.

[Amablue]

[STA-CITE]> 1) The sample size was small enough that it cannot be extrapolated into human kind in general. [END-CITE]You'd be surprised. Even small samples can be extrapolated if you have a good sample. For example, look at this sample size calculator: http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm Plug in our variables in the second box. We've got 41 people, in a country of 313 million people, and about 50% missed the exit. That puts the confidence interval at about 15.31. In other words, we can be 95% sure that 50% +/- 15% would miss the exit. Even at the low end of the estimate, that's still 35% of people who would miss it, which is not an insignificant amount. (It's been a while since I've done any statistics, can someone more knowledgeable than me correct me if I'm wrong there?)

[rageraptor]

∆ After thinking about it, I have decided that even if my problems with the study - besides the low sample size which seems to be unsupported - were 100% true, then it would still be significant. Thank you for your citations and cogent discussion.

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[gadela08]

∆ this did it for me: > If you compare talking to someone next to you and talking to someone on the phone, the flow of the conversation is different. The person in the passenger seat is aware of the conditions of the road just as you are, and you pause and resume the conversation depending on road conditions, even unconsciously. Whereas when you're on the phone, your mind is away, focusing on the conversation going on in your ear, not the conversation going on around you.

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[MySafeWordIsReddit]

Huh, I thought the only difference was the use of the hands. This is interesting stuff. ∆. Edit: oh wow, you're good at this. What's your secret? Just post on every thread?

[Amablue]

I post a lot while I'm at work. I'm a programmer, and my project can have some long compile and load times, so I tend to have lots of little 3 to 5 minute breaks while I wait for stuff. Naturally, I have a reddit window open pretty much the whole day. Also for threads like this where I vaguely remember hearing a contradictory study, I just google around until I can find something that would be useful :)

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[Amablue]

oh god why does this keep happening to me D:

[cwenham]

Show-off.