WMN: t3_286wmt_t1_ci8drhb

[TITLE]

CMV: Feminist attempts to reclaim words are unlikely to succeed

[casebash]

I just read this [article](http://charlesclymer.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/can-bitch-or-cunt-be-reclaimed-i-dont.html), and I agree with its reasoning. Firstly he defines reclaiming a word as "the oppressed group is able to remove the sting of a derogatory term specific to their group by using it among other members". Basically, the only word that has kind of been reclaimed is the n-word, but that still packs a huge sting, so he argues it hasn't been effectively reclaimed. He argues that while minorities should be able to use these words, the rest of the population is not equipped to understand why they can't use these words and that, "When a white kid sees his favorite rapper use the word, he assumes that, despite the historical significance of its oppressive qualities, it's now fine to say the n-word." He argues that feminist attempts to reclaim words will be counter-productive in the same way. I agree with his argument. CMV. _____ > *Hello, users of CMV! This is a footnote from your moderators. We'd just like to remind you of a couple of things. Firstly, please remember to* ***[read through our rules](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules)***. *If you see a comment that has broken one, it is more effective to report it than downvote it. Speaking of which,* ***[downvotes don't change views](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/guidelines#wiki_upvoting.2Fdownvoting)****! If you are thinking about submitting a CMV yourself, please have a look through our* ***[popular topics wiki](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/populartopics)*** *first. Any questions or concerns? Feel free to* ***[message us](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/changemyview)***. *Happy CMVing!*

[Renner1]

Reclaiming words in this sense is just idiotic. You don't go around calling every random woman you see a slut or a bitch-- you call sluts sluts and bitches bitches. Both of those are really in the minority in the real sense of the negative characteristics of those slurs.

[Myuym]

[STA-CITE]>Basically, the only word that has kind of been reclaimed is the n-word [END-CITE]What about fag, it used to mean gay people and now it means harley riders. You can repurpose words. You really can, I just think nigger is a bad example of words that have reclaimed. To reclaim a word what is needed is to remove the negative connotations and add positive ones. It's all about how words are used. For example take tumblerinas that equate rape to being stared at. That makes that when people use the word that it's not just seen as something horrible, but as either something horrible or something mildly annoying. This changes the word in a bad way. But when you do the same in reverse it's possible to change a bad word to a good word. By using it only in a positive context and never in a negative context. Lets take immigrants as an example, if a lot of negative things like crime and stuff are associated with immigrants the word get's negative. Now when you change the word to mean positive things like contributions to society you can redeem the word to be positive. Downside is that to get that result there are other words needed for the negative context. Like illegal aliens. So it's posible to reclaim words, but in the case of things like bitch, it would be needed to only use it positively and there would be another word needed for a spiteful or unpleasant woman, so you would only replace the words. Feminists seem to want to completely remove the meaning of bitch. not only the word. It's possible to change the word but there will always be "bitches" that will get called that way. It doesn't matter much if that is by the word bitch or by another word which means bitch.

[wekulm]

Fag means Harley riders? Really? Is that a term among motorcycle riders? I didn't know that.

[Filth090]

its a south park refrence

[BlackHumor]

Why does there have to be a word for a spiteful or unpleasant *woman*? There are already plenty of words for spiteful or unpleasant *people*; why aren't those enough?

[I_suck_at_mostthings]

I think the only reason people use gender specific ones is to be as specific/hurtful as possible. (Not saying it's good or bad, just saying why I think it is)

[GameboyPATH]

[STA-CITE]>He argues that while minorities should be able to use these words, the rest of the population is not equipped to understand why they can't use these words... [END-CITE]I can understand. I've been briefed about the plight of African-Americans and their history as victims of societal and institutional oppression that still impacts them today. The term is unequal in its use because the way African-Americans have been and still are treated is not equal. While not the exact same story, women have received - and still do receive - unequal treatment. Thus, the same reasoning applies to the word "bitch", which can be used positively among casual female groups. Both the modern African-American and American woman receive unequal social treatment, and current social movements - feminism included - are aiming to spread awareness of such inequalities. If they succeed in having the population acknowledge these inequalities, then people will also be more accepting of new connotations for these reclaimed slurs.

[kuury]

You're not wrong. Changing an entire population's meaning for a popular word is not easy. One mistake that I think people trying to do this are making is keeping the negative meaning of the word around for everyone *but* them. It just creates more divides and as newer generations come, they won't understand why the word is bad, only that their genitals or skin color preclude them from using it. Feeling discriminated against by society at large, the youth discriminate back (think how bullies work), and so the original meaning of the word gets used more and more. It *can* work, it's just that it requires a lot of forethought, which is hard to do when you're basically a mob of people instead of a unified order.

[casebash]

∆ I agree, if no-one was offended by the n-word - say it was considered as silly as "cracker", then people would give up on using it as an insult and the word could be reclaimed

[DeltaBot]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/kuury. ^[[History](/r/changemyview/wiki/user/kuury)] ^[[Wiki](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltabot)][[Code](https://github.com/alexames/DeltaBot)][[Subreddit](http://www.reddit.com/r/DeltaBot/)]

[GnosticGnome]

[STA-CITE]>Basically, the only word that has kind of been reclaimed is the n-word [END-CITE]Well, that's just plain wrong. That word has not been reclaimed. "Queer" has been reclaimed. Once it had a sharp sting, and now it's almost only used by people who consider themselves queer. "Yankee" has been reclaimed, to the point that few even remember it was a British slur against Americans. "Nerd" has come a long way, and barely stings any more.

[Renner1]

Personally I still consider and would use "queer" in a derogatory sense towards those specific homosexuals who feel that they have to go around flaunting this ridiculous distortion in the way of extreme flamboyancy. As opposed to someone who happens to be homosexual and doesn't make that the main thing they talk about or their primary aspect of their character.

[naturemage]

So you're saying that you, as a person, would call someone a "queer" in a derogatory manner for acting overtly homosexual?

[Renner1]

I would characterize some kind of display of over-the-top flamboyancy as such, yes. Could also go with "faggy" or something like that. It's not about labelling anyone and everyone who's a homosexual a "queer" or "fag", you understand. Only the worst in terms of militant LGBT activism and putting this image on display.

[not_jamesfranco]

I don't think those words have been consciously reclaimed, except for maybe "queer" since I'm not sure about the history of that. I think it has to do more with overall cultural changes. I've never heard any American refer to themselves as a yankee, so I'm thinking it's just plain outdated. "Nerd" is just so much more vague. Once jobs in science and computers became popular, I think the word started to apply to anyone who was "smart" and people acted like smart people had been oppressed all through the past and were just now seeing their day. But no, smart people have always been respected, and people who obsess over trivia and suck at social interaction (the traditional "nerds") have been ridiculed.

[thewoodenchair]

[STA-CITE]> I don't think those words have been consciously reclaimed, except for maybe "queer" since I'm not sure about the history of that. I think it has to do more with overall cultural changes. I've never heard any American refer to themselves as a yankee, so I'm thinking it's just plain outdated. [END-CITE]I associate Yankee exclusively with Southerners refering to Northerners.

[casebash]

∆ Good points. I agree with not_jmesfranco that "nerd" probably had a lot to do with social changes (rather than a conscious effort to reclaim) and "yankee" was easier to change because it fell out of use. Queer is a good point, but they were using it as their identity. I suppose that if feminists went around and called themselves "bitches" and asked other people to call them that too, then they might be able to flood the market so much that the meaning of the word would change. Of course, people would switch over to using a new word or an existing word would become more prominent, so it mightn't make a difference, but I suppose it is possible to reclaim words if you try hard enough.

[DeltaBot]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/GnosticGnome. ^[[History](/r/changemyview/wiki/user/GnosticGnome)] ^[[Wiki](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltabot)][[Code](https://github.com/alexames/DeltaBot)][[Subreddit](http://www.reddit.com/r/DeltaBot/)]