WMN: t3_2zke3b_t1_cpjq36h

[TITLE]

CMV: Sociopathic behavior is caused largely by loneliness.

[averroes86]

I am beginning to think that sociopathic behavior is closely related to loneliness. Perhaps loneliness is a main cause of such behavior. I think that this because sociopaths, especially ones who are frustrated out of not being recognized, noticed, loved, or observed, begin to develop a need to connect to other humans in some way. Either by being noticed, admired, followed or observed. Due to the lack of professional capability and skill (let's get real you need to be famous to be on TV), but clearly, intelligence, meticulousness and a desire for recognition are strong. CMV. _____ > *Hello, users of CMV! This is a footnote from your moderators. We'd just like to remind you of a couple of things. Firstly, please remember to* ***[read through our rules](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules)***. *If you see a comment that has broken one, it is more effective to report it than downvote it. Speaking of which,* ***[downvotes don't change views](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/guidelines#wiki_upvoting.2Fdownvoting)****! If you are thinking about submitting a CMV yourself, please have a look through our* ***[popular topics wiki](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/populartopics)*** *first. Any questions or concerns? Feel free to* ***[message us](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/changemyview)***. *Happy CMVing!*

[mossimo654]

By sociopath do you mean psychopath? Not to be a pedant, but I don't even think sociopath is a used term anymore. And some of the things you're describing don't seem to fit sociopaths or psychopaths.

[krkr8m]

The current medical term is antisocial personality disorder, though sociopath and psychopath are both still regularly used outside of documentation. They technically have meant the same thing though they are widely used to differentiate the two sides of the coin which is APD. It is estimated that at least 1/50 people are neurologically a sociopath/psychopath though only a small fraction ever commit a major criminal offense. Even an average intelligence in someone with APD will result in their creation of personal rules to govern social interaction and they will usually decide that the risk of getting caught is greater then the pleasure payoff. The most dangerous sociopaths are those who are of marginally low/high intelligence. Those with slightly low intelligence know just enough to plan and carry out a crime but not enough to keep from getting caught. When they get caught, they get violent. Those with slightly high intelligence are just smart enough to use violence for gain while not usually getting caught. They are not smart enough to realize that being the smartest person you know does not make you the smartest person in the world. Those on the low extreme are usually institutionalized and treated for their intelligence long before they are grown enough to cause major harm. Those on the high extreme primarily would use active or passive manipulation, obfuscation, and veiled threat to obtain a particular pleasure. They will skate the edge of the law or seek to change a tiny detail in the law. Due to their intelligence, they view the commission of crime as drawing unwanted attention to their borderline-legal actions. They are also smart enough to realize that being the smartest person you know doesn't mean much on a national or world scale, and the risk of being outsmarted, when death or prison is the result, is just too great.

[futtbucked69]

For the sake of argument, can you define a sociopath? It is a word often used but can mean different things based on context. Are we talking basically a pychopath?

[rickthehatman]

Sociopathy (rather Antisocial personality disorder as it is now called) is defined by the DSM IV as "The essential feature of Antisocial Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood." Based on this definition that it is a pervasive pattern starting in childhood I tend to agree more with /u/cervesa that loneliness could have more to do with people not wanting to be around the sociopath as they tend to be "tough-minded, glib, superficial, exploitative, and unempathic." (DSM pg 367) There may be people who start out "normal" and become cold-hearted and sullen do to their loneliness. They may start to exhibit some of the signs of sociopaths, the impulsive behavior and feeling that bad attention is better than no attention, but it's a bigger leap, a much bigger one, to lack basic empathy.

[catastematic]

How would you differentiate between "there are traits that lonely people and sociopaths have in common" and "that sociopathic behavior is closely related to loneliness. Perhaps loneliness is a main cause of such behavior"? Because the first is obviously true: loneliness can cause disinhibition (lonely people fail to rehearse social norms and develop eccentric behavior) and meanness (lonely people lack social ties and thus can have difficulties with empathy). These traits are also a small part of the picture of antisocial personality disorder. But the *reasons* are entitely different, and therefore connected to entirely different personality complexes. Sociopaths tend to be impulsive and reckless, and have a history of misconduct. Lonely people are frequently lonely *because* they are too inhibited when it comes to making new acquaintances in social settings, because they are too cautious, because they don't want to risk having their feelings hurt.

[___OccamsChainsaw___]

Sociopaths^1 are no more intelligent than the general population on average, and while superficial charm is a marker of anti-social pathology it's likely a tool developed by such individuals to protect themselves from being recognized. Many sociopaths certainly do crave attention, but that doesn't make them any different from the general population. A fair number of them lack ambition completely (again like the general population) and use their manipulative abilities to fool others into providing them their basic necessities. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ ^(1. To avoid semantic nonsense, assume sociopathy == psychopathy == anti-social personality disorder.)

[averroes86]

Yeah I get you. But maybe their need for attention is higher than usual and that some actions that are deemed as morally and socially unacceptable could be fine with them. So they resort to these actions to get themselves across..

[___OccamsChainsaw___]

That doesn't explain a lot about their psychology. Why would an increased need for attention cause a lack of empathy (they literally do not show the same physical response as determined by fMRI)? How would it explain covert or parasitic sociopaths who tend to shy away from attention? How would it explain the fact that sociopaths tend to have a reduced or non-existent sense of agency? How would it explain the fact that they are, as some laboratory experiments have shown, completely unable to emotionally anticipate punishment (pain)?

[ThatBelligerentSloth]

Do you have any studies to back up your opinion?

[averroes86]

No, it was merely a thought or an observation and I wanted to put it to the test..

[sarafromj]

Ok this is anecdotal obviously, but I believe it fits. My dad was a (diagnosed) sociopath. He was an expert manipulator. He had tons of friends who had no idea he was using them or didn't know about his dark side. He was one of the most well known people in my small town, he was far from lonely. He just didn't care about anyone else on a real level, hence the behavior.

[cervesa]

For all you know it could be the other way around. Sociopathic behaviour encourages loneliness.

[WhenSnowDies]

You're a good person, and I can tell you why I know that. First, I was raised by psychopaths. They're not a product of loneliness and aren't attempting to mitigate it and overcompensate. If you spend time with one, you will be used in ways you didn't know what possible, and if you're in a situation where you guys have to be around each other (as with family or marriage), they'll do everything to crush you personally and render you silent and inactive--as if dead. I wont bother you with the details. They'll torture your pets, make fun of you at and after funerals, use every up or down to remind you that you're futile as a person and everything you do, etc. They want to be the only person, and you being a person and not a thing is actually a problem. They go to insane lengths, even murder, to stamp that out and make their point. If anything, they want nobody to exist but them. They project themselves onto others and see nothing because they are nothing. To them, others shouldn't exist, because they themselves shouldn't exist, and they cannot imagine that it's their own inferiority. The reason you're a good person is because people project themselves over the horizon of what they know, onto what they don't know. We don't know most things. You don't know what's under your bed right now, and your sense of security in your possessions means that you project safety. There could be a killer or a bomb, a gas leak, etc. A little kid, who's told to stay out of unknowns, beware of strangers, just listen, sees danger under their bed because they're filled with a sense that they're in danger. The project that fear into unknowns like the bed or closet. If I flip a coin, why does it land heads or tails? Some say fate, some say chance. However if I was able to know all the hidden variables and calculate them fast enough, and a machine has been made that does this, then I could know the result every time. It isn't chance or fate, but into our ignorance we project ourselves. We must, there's no other way to navigate in darkness and learn what we don't know. I said you're a good person because you're projecting sympathy into what's unknown to you. But by no means are sociopaths lonely, caused by it, or attempting to mitigate it. They're just fools who wont let go of things they don't work, or goals that are unrealistic, because they don't care about you or reality because they're mad with hubris, a glitch that wants to say, "I'm realer than everybody and everything." They destroy to make that point.

[flipacoinbot]

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[averroes86]

Wow, that cut a little deep! I hope you're not speaking from a personal experience because it is clear that you're speaking from a deep place...

[krkr8m]

Technically speaking, someone with antisocial personality disorder (sociopaths and psychopaths) does not (possibly cannot) feel lonely. I would suggest that your observations have been of individuals with bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, or another disorder which can often manifest with depression or rage and a lack of empathy or authentic emotion. I would consider this symptomatic, sometimes voluntary, and usually temporary sociopathy/psychopathy. On another note, extreme isolation and the resultant loneliness has been shown to result in permanent symptoms of this description. Look into the story of Genie and other less severe examples of early and extreme isolation. Here is the jumping off point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_%28feral_child%29

[averroes86]

∆ I do have some friends who suffer from some disorder (not reaching the level of psychopathy) And have always been concerned with whether or not they will 'up the ante' one day and go to an extreme, hence my asking, and your explanation makes perfect sense (to me and to my observation - so definitely there is some bias here).

[DeltaBot]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/krkr8m. [^krkr8m's ^delta ^history](/r/ChangeMyView/wiki/user/krkr8m) ^| [^delta ^system ^explained](/r/ChangeMyView/wiki/DeltaBot)

[averroes86]

Sorry Bot! I do have some friends who suffer from some disorder (not reaching the level of psychopathy) And have always been concerned with whether or not they will 'up the ante' one day and go to an extreme, hence my asking, and your explanation makes perfect sense (to me and to my observation - so definitely there is some bias here).

[LaoTzusGymShoes]

Add it to the comment with the delta.