[K74PSUNK]
Or determining standards and then setting targets for all of your staff . Can you tell me how good a job you do ?
WMN: K74_542
Dialogue: K74
[K74PSUNK]
No
[PS5NT]
You ca n't , why not ?
[K74PSUNK]
Because we 're not set any targets and we 've never given any feedback from higher [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
We know who bad we do .
[PS5NT]
You know how badly you do ?
[K74PSUNK]
You are [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
You 're told at annual appraisal week .
[K74PSUNK]
Well there 's not set
[K74PSUNK]
If you get an appraisal , unless you get performance review .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NU]
I got quite , I was given to it last year , I reckon [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
How did they do that Kenny , I mean what good , who gave that to you ?
[PS5NU]
The boss
[PS5NT]
The branch manager .
[PS5NU]
Yes , he gave us five targets to achieve by [UNCLEAR] the one that we had this year .
[PS5NT]
Right
[PS5NU]
I achieved all of that , and more .
[PS5NT]
So erm , was that when you joined the branch first of all ?
[PS5NT]
Alright , so how did you do that , when you were getting interviewed some place in our area .
[PS5NU]
Yes , he was totally good , he sat us down . Cos everybody else got the erm , forms , erm , the appraisal , and the one they had was supposed to be target setting for each department manager . Well I was n't there long enough to us an appraisal to he give us , he still give us the targets
[PS5NT]
Okay
[PS5NU]
And I was in last week both Saturday 's before I came here , and we went through we 'd achieved all targets [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Alright , so that 's kind of an ideal scenario , an interview situation 's been very clearly set . Perfect , what about the rest of you . Heidi , do you know how you do ?
[PS5NV]
Only because I 've just had my appraisal .
[PS5NT]
Right , so
[PS5NV]
Only because of that , and what they said in that totally shocked me , because erm , I , he had n't given me any feedback about how I was doing .
[PS5NT]
On an ongoing basis ?
[PS5NV]
Yes
[PS5NT]
Do you think it 's right then , that an appraisal should come up with those surprises for you ?
[K74PSUNK]
No
[PS5NT]
Why ?
[K74PSUNK]
Because you should be told constantly , throughout the year , and there should be some kind of re-assessment .
[PS5NT]
Right , does anybody get that ?
[PS5NV]
No
[PS5NT]
Anybody at all ?
[PS5NV]
The targets I was given last year in my appraisal were n't covered at all this year in my appraisal by the manager ,
[PS5NT]
yes
[PS5NV]
They were only brought up by me .
[PS5NT]
yes , was it , was it a different manager ?
[PS5NV]
It was , but he had the sheet in front of him , which had my targets set on it .
[PS5NT]
Possibly a lack of planning there . Anybody else , I mean we 've had the erm , the formal target setting , and we 've mentioned appraisals ? I mean whether it 's good feedback or bad feedback do you get an other feedback on a less formal basis ?
[K74PSUNK]
Mm
[K74PSUNK]
We get bad feedback .
[PS5NT]
yes , what do you get ?
[K74PSUNK]
Criticisms , you know .
[PS5NT]
Criticism , what form does that take ?
[K74PSUNK]
What are you going to do about it , on the shop floor , it 's , it 's not done properly ?
[PS5NU]
We get both ,
[PS5NT]
Mm
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
The formal and the informal .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
I 've never , in all the time that I 've been with the company , I 've never had any positive feedback at all . Although I 've had [UNCLEAR] form , nobody 's ever told me anything that I should be doing , people come round and say , you have n't done that . Erm , why 's that like that , they do n't tell you how to correct it , so often , you know , you do n't , you do n't know how to avoid making the same mistake next time .
[PS5NT]
Right .
[K74PSUNK]
And you know , you know , what 's the point of coming round and giving you a bollocking if nobody 's going to tell you why ? I have n't , I have n't had any positive feedback at all , in all the time that I 've been there . Erm , I 'm in no man 's land at the moment , because I 'm like between , between sort of like branches , appraisals are coming up , how can I have an appraisal , I wo n't have anything .
[PS5NT]
Ray .
[PS5NW]
Well I think I 've been rather more fortunate , the two branch managers I 've had er , before [UNCLEAR] , I 'd not had long enough , er , both have given albeit not regular , but feedback both positive and negative , er , when you 're doing a good job and when you 're doing a bad job , and er , in all honesty , it 's probably the appraisal itself , that 's actually been unnecessary because of their feedback they 're given me during the year , because the appraisal is just a formal repetition of what 's already been said .
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , I think that 's right , I think a lot of people question the validity of appraisals , because you should n't be learning anything new , you know , should there be an appraisal .
[K74PSUNK]
You should n't be , but that 's not my experience .
[K74PSUNK]
No
[PS5NW]
Ah , erm , but , do you think that , sorry , do you think the appraisal itself , because it 's an annual event , er , some branch managers will get to you with what turns out to be the performance review , and therefore , not doing it during the year , because of the appraisal ?
[PS5NT]
It 's a possibility that some may think that , but I ca n't believe that with the management skills training that they 've received up until , up to that level , that they can still honestly think that 's correct . But undoubtedly ,
[K74PSUNK]
No , I think , in other cases , they just ca n't be bothered to give you feedback . Sorry , that 's a very negative thing to say , but ,
[K74PSUNK]
But they do n't see you as much as his secretary does either do they ? They do n't have as much to do with you , I mean my branch manager does n't know what division he 's in .
[K74PSUNK]
But your fresh [UNCLEAR] deputy should be the one who 's giving you the feedback , I mean , all the time I was on provisions in my last department , and nobody ever told me how I was doing . Besides , you know , it 's too trivial , there 's too many important things , like why have n't you got the special offer on display , to even bother to tell why you 're not , why you 're not performing or if anything is n't going right . And it 's so demotivating , like you know , how are supposed to get the best out of your staff if nobody can be bothered to tell you how you 're doing ?
[PS5NT]
That 's right , yes .
[PS5NU]
That 's only like , by they sounds of things , down this way . Up our way , they all give you feedback , like you know , several branches in like , the North , every branch I 've been into , there 's always been positive feedback , and negative and positive . There 's only one branch that I 've been and that was Bury .
[PS5NT]
Was that all in one district , Kenny , or was it spread across districts [UNCLEAR] ?
[PS5NU]
Erm , well the North East and all , I found very good , the two York stores , Harrogate and [UNCLEAR] , erm , that 's where I 've been involved really , and they 've all been very good for that .
[PS5NT]
Yes , then maybe that 's the influence of [UNCLEAR] around the place , the other names . What about ?
[K74PSUNK]
You know , my other two other branches were the same , I 'm doing a free appointment at , I 'm at [ANONYMIZATION] at the moment , we 're supposed to get a two-weekly , when you do a free appointment , they 're supposed to sit down with every two weeks and tell you how you 're doing . Erm , it took , it took a week and a half before the fresh foods secretary even spoke to me when I went in this place to do the free appointment , nobody 's told me how I 'm doing , so then what 's the point of doing these things if nobody 's going give you anything , it 's just a waste of time ?
[K74PSUNK]
You need to push for yourself sometimes though . I think a lot of people in a free appointment situation have been stuck like that but you 've just got to , squeak and shout out [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
Mm , push for your training , push to be spoken to
[K74PSUNK]
Oh , yes , but they 're going on that 's [UNCLEAR] to sake of free , at the moment so the last thing that they 're interested in doing is talking to me about if I know what I 'm doing . Quite honestly .
[K74PSUNK]
Does Steve the district manager know about this , because he 's dead against all this , he wo n't have [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
No , he knows , no , no , sorry , he knows , he knows all about it . He 's had me there specifically , so I 'm just wasting my time .
[K74PSUNK]
I think it , it depends on the branch . The last branch I was in was very small , and I got a lot of feedback from them .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
My first department , and I went in and I got a lot of feedback from my deputy , and the branch manager to a certain extent , and I did get it from the district manager as well .
[K74PSUNK]
They do when they came in , and they want the stall made like this , and they would say , you know , well you know , I 'm paying you to finish that off , you know , how , your next , your next priority to do is this , and they eventually told me what they wanted , and you know , you get on with it .
[PS5NT]
They started to [UNCLEAR] especially trainee managers , [UNCLEAR] spending periods of time in the smaller branch , and they 've got to get on with that concern , but I think there are benefits since they 've been doing that . Turning that issue on its head . We 're talking about what feedback or the lack of feedback you yourself have received , how do you give feedback to your staff ? How do you tell them how well or how badly they 're doing ?
[K74PSUNK]
Just tell them .
[K74PSUNK]
If he 's got a job there , and he 's done it well or he 's done it badly , tell him he 's done it badly , tell them where they 've gone wrong and tell them what they should do to put it right .
[PS5NT]
Give us , give an example of that then . Because
[K74PSUNK]
I have , I have one fellah in particular , erm , I 'm the meat manager , and he puts the ham away , the mess , every time he does it , so I , I tell him , and I show him how to do it , but still , he consistently does it wrong you know .
[PS5NT]
Right , so when you 're actually telling him , what do you say ?
[K74PSUNK]
I show him , I show him the way I do it , and go through it with him .
[PS5NT]
Mhm
[K74PSUNK]
And show him this is the way you should do it . But [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
It 's still wrong . What about the rest of you , how do you give feedback ?
[K74PSUNK]
A daily meeting really .
[PS5NT]
A daily meeting ? How do they work ?
[K74PSUNK]
Yes . The fresh foods manager will walk us round , with the store manager in the morning , and we have er , whatever they say , we have a meeting , and I have feedbacks to start , and I say what I 'm happy with and what I 'm not . I 'm in the bakery so if stuff 's rubbish I tell them , if it 's good I tell them , and then they say well fine , if , if they have any problems we take it , right or wrong . [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
And how does that go down ?
[K74PSUNK]
Yes fine , because they can raise any issues .
[PS5NT]
On a regular basis . What do the rest of you think about that ?
[K74PSUNK]
That perhaps it 's easier to do in a smaller department , I mean I 've got checkouts , and the majority of my staff are part-time , and I 've only got three full-timers , so it 's quite often the case that at nine thirty , one thirty , five thirty , eight thirty , it 's a case of coming in and then relieving somebody else straight away , you do n't necessarily have the time to spend with them .
[PS5NT]
How do you do it , how to do you cope with that ?
[K74PSUNK]
It 's very difficult , because you 're , again , I mean , we 're saying that we do n't get positive feedback , how many of us truthfully give positive feedback through to our staff ? [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Go on , raise , let's have a [UNCLEAR] hands , then How many give positive feedback to your staff , do you think ?
[K74PSUNK]
Half the time I would say .
[K74PSUNK]
yes
[K74PSUNK]
You said that [UNCLEAR] in our newsletter , because our checkout manager said that she 's found life extremely difficult with all the changes of shifts , and that in her department they have lots of problems , so she 's got like a pro forma checkout news , and she asks them for things that go into this , that they , you know , that they want bringing up , and specific things that they 're having difficulty with . I mean she 'll put it in the proper procedure , and then she 'll put like operator performance and things , that have erm .
[K74PSUNK]
We have erm , we ca n't put operator performance any more on our district , because we 've just erm , stopped that , it does n't , you know , they do n't apply it to performance any more as far as that goes , but erm , I have got three representation , three representatives , which the checkout people nominated themselves and I have a monthly meeting with those to come up with any problems but it 's still , you know , that 's tackling one issue . You 've still got the problem of addressing praise , because quite often you 've only , if you 've given somebody a specific task then it 's easy to praise or not to praise in that situation , but if they 've just come in , done their job and gone home , you know , just sat on a checkout for four hours , right it 's my time to leave , then , if they 've done nothing out of the blue , extraordinary , so they do n't do anything wrong , or , you know . They do n't do anything better or worse
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
You know , they just do their job do n't they .
[PS5NT]
Yes , it 's easy to comment on their performance if you 've stood by and watched their shift . What about those of you that say , you do n't give positive feedback , Alex , I notice you were one ?
[PS5NX]
Well I sometimes do when , er , if , I have a tendency when it 's , when it 's right to praise instantly when it 's right and when it 's wrong . You know , when you go straight there , and sometimes you get it , it 's not constructive , you know , but if I 'm getting jumped on , I tend to perhaps jump , jump down on the people below me .
[PS5NT]
Yes .
[PS5NX]
Yes , so sometimes it has a tendency to seem like you 're blowing hot and cold .
[PS5NT]
It 's like a kick the cat syndrome , is n't it .
[PS5NX]
yes , it 's sort of like oh , what 's his facial expression , oh right , everybody 's head down , here he comes . [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
yes
[PS5NX]
Oh , he 's got a smile on his face , oh we 're alright . Sometimes it 's difficult . It all depends on the reaction that you get from your , your boss .
[PS5NT]
Your superiors , particularly , yes . They very [UNCLEAR] , erm , can for volunteers , please .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NT]
It 's very straightforward . [UNCLEAR] and Rachel , you can say what you want , you like , [UNCLEAR] , hold that . Ian , [UNCLEAR] , okay could you all please just draw a house
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Rachel , Ian , Gary , Pete , just those four of you , if you just draw a house , please ,
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Just a quick house , it does n't have to be a masterpiece .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Right , all finished ?
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , there we go .
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , very nice .
[PS5NT]
All finished ? Finished , right ? . That is the crappiest house that I 've ever seen . It 's just a waste of time .
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NT]
Now that , that 's brilliant . I just think that 's brilliant . That 's great , thank you very much . , let's have a look at this one . I think that 's very good , I particularly like the way you 've got the path coming down from it . I think maybe you could do with a little more symmetry , particularly on the roof area , but generally I think that 's very good . Thank you . Right , what happened there , the four of you ? How did you feel ? How did you feel , Gary ?
[PS5NY]
Well I 'm [UNCLEAR] quite honestly .
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NY]
That 's all there is , I ca n't quite work it out . No seriously , you get so much shit at work , if you took it all to heart , you know , you 'd just crack up , [UNCLEAR] and the way I deal with stress like , you know , someone 's made my day .
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NT]
Water off a duck 's back . Do you think that 's the case for all your staff ?
[PS5NY]
Erm , not really , well so ,
[K74PSUNK]
sometimes I 'd say
[PS5NY]
Sometimes , yes they 'd say .
[PS5NT]
It 's water off th , their back as well ?
[K74PSUNK]
Sometimes , yes , and especially when they 're juniors
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , Tuesdays , the accounts manager , I think if everybody wants to get that reaction , if that 's the regular reaction that they get , you know , people dumping on them all the time , it is water off a duck 's back , you take it more , you take it more on board if it is an occasional thing , [UNCLEAR] .
[PS5NT]
Yes , so they start to become immune to it .
[K74PSUNK]
yes , and this is the problem , yes , it 's inconsistent things , it 's like regular , it 's just expected .
[PS5NT]
It 's like beating a dog , is n't it ? You do it all the time , they 're conditioned to it in the end . Do you think it 's good that people can get to that stage ?
[K74PSUNK]
No , because there 's , er , it 's only one step away from not carrying out the job at all , when .
[K74PSUNK]
No , because you expect somebody to take pride in what they do , means the job does n't get as well then .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
I just think that even with what you 're saying , because , with his , with what , with Gary 's own [UNCLEAR] , because they say especially with the students , it 's water off a duck 's back , but I do n't think . I think the students take a real pride in what they 're doing , in our place .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
Certain ones do [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
And they 're not just doing it for the money because , you know , if you just sort of give them a mundane task like trolleys for example , they 're banging on the door , you know , when can I get off this , when am I going to get some responsibility . I do n't want it , I 'm not here just to go and collect trolleys for four hours , and the get really pissed off with it . So I 'm disagreeing with what you 're saying , because you , you 're tarring them all with the same brush .
[K74PSUNK]
I 'd like to , I know , that 's what I 'm saying , you ca n't generalise like that
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] what [ANONYMIZATION] was saying completely
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , I agree [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
Well maybe there 's a difference between , I mean are you all in like London then ?
[K74PSUNK]
No
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
Ours do n't seem to care about what they do .
[K74PSUNK]
Your 's do ?
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , but that 's probably , I mean , I 'm trying to instil that it 's got to be done right into them .
[K74PSUNK]
I 've had two students and the rest of the stores have had two [UNCLEAR] , alright , that 's why I 'm , I 'm desperate for somebody , and I 'll take them . I 'll tell you what , they 're the best damn students I 've ever had .
[K74PSUNK]
You ca n't generalise students , because some of our students are excellent .
[K74PSUNK]
I 'm quite happy with mine , they do the business .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
There 's one student in our branch , and she runs the provisions department , [UNCLEAR] in Bolton , yes
[K74PSUNK]
Who , who said anything management-wise , that had to be done ? and she 's just a student
[K74PSUNK]
yes
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] and you do get them , but I understand a lot of them , a majority of them now , er , the university students , or what have you , they do n't want to do the overtime , because they 've got to study right , they come in , they do the job , and they just do n't want any stress . But it 's the working with them , you know , you 've got to try and work with them , he 's got to go round may be every five minutes and make sure they 've put it out , otherwise he 's going to stand there doing his university work . You know it 's , [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
I think in different areas , it 's true , it 's
[K74PSUNK]
I think it 's completely over the top [UNCLEAR] I did other work , at least
[PS5NT]
We 've got a lot of different opinions there , I mean from my personal experience when I was a customer sales manager my , my students or particularly some of them , well I would say the brightest kind of people in the branch , and they had the most attention , and it 's very easy I think to write them off .
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , yes , they have er , a temporary student , and they asked him to leave us , he 's , there 's no work for him like . But I 've got this other kid , he 's twenty eight , and he 's absolutely a waste of time , he does n't know anything about it . I ca n't do anything with him , yet this other kid 's absolutely brilliant , and I think it 's a shame that I 've had to leave , like let the temps . go , so these plonkers can stop here .
[PS5NT]
There is a lot , there is a lot of tension there is n't there ? It 'll have to be sorted out .
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , there is a lot of tension somewhere .
[K74PSUNK]
I think that 's what it 's like on customer services , when I was a trainee
[K74PSUNK]
I think it 's like that with other students as well
[PS5NT]
Say that again [ANONYMIZATION]
[K74PSUNK]
They 're always be other students that will always go along , you know , be on the clock [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Mm , how many of you have been students then ?
[K74PSUNK]
A lot of them have got , have got some chance , it 's obvious , you know you 've got to tackle it right .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
I was
[K74PSUNK]
No I was n't
[K74PSUNK]
I was working at Sainsbury 's .
[PS5NT]
How , how many have you been students ?
[K74PSUNK]
Not for Sainsbury 's .
[K74PSUNK]
Not for Sainsbury 's , but [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Well , were you a plonker when you started ?
[K74PSUNK]
No , [UNCLEAR] , it 's just a [UNCLEAR] but he was , you know , I was fairly slow , and then I went on , I followed erm , I ended up slightly [UNCLEAR] , as well , erm , then I went to college up to the age of eighteen , erm , and as soon as I finished college he made me a department manager . You know , I 'd done the section manager part-time , I 've done the Saturday 's and Sunday 's , I 've done the share , the fair share of shoving the shit when I had to erm , but , I think you can get a lot of average streams , there is a lot of potential there for one to become a very valued member of staff . Erm ,
[PS5NT]
The question is , are you tapping that potential ?
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , if you can , if you can recognise it , or if you 've got [UNCLEAR] , or if , several members of erm , several students we had when I was on grocery at Camden , we had to , I think it was twenty eight [UNCLEAR] on Saturday afternoon , they might have been on checkouts , well I mean , they 're still scheduled to my [UNCLEAR] , I 'm saying out of that about four of them er , are still working at Camden full-time . They were taken on full-time , they left college , and they want to do whatever they want to do . Erm , one 's er [UNCLEAR] controller , another one 's er , a senior warehouseman , another one works out the back door , er , the other one 's like Gary , he does bread all the time . He 's solely responsible for the bread .
[PS5NT]
yes
[K74PSUNK]
And it 's the section manager , like he does more than the section manager does , because the section manager 's a waste of space . I 'll admit he does , erm , you do get exceptions , but I think it can come down to your er , the culture , the student culture . I mean if you live in a posh area , er , the student 's going to take a pride in what he 's done , because you know you can give him it every day of his life , and he , he wants to do something , but he wants to do it himself . Or you get
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] I do n't agree ,
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] , I do n't agree with that , it 's a load of bullshit
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
I think the bullshit 's yours , it 's your [UNCLEAR] , you know , you take somebody on as well .
[K74PSUNK]
You know , you can take it so many different ways ,
[K74PSUNK]
I mean , I 've worked with [UNCLEAR] and I am familiar with them , there is very little [UNCLEAR] it 's a real run-down area is n't it , in some respects , and you get twenty shoplifters a day , but my students are brilliant , they take a lot of pride in what they do . I mean it does n't affect the area , I mean ours did do at branch , our students were erm , I mean they started work in the poultries , and they all had , you know , big cardies , it came from [UNCLEAR] handling . And because they had the money , they were n't interested , a lot of them were n't interested , yes . So that erm , it does you good to have a job , it looks good on a C V , [UNCLEAR] and they would do as little as possible , and if you , if you disciplined them , then one of them says oh well , I 'll leave , me dad will give me the money anyway . The dad will just give them the cheque , you know , they 've got thirty five pounds , pocket money just for , you know his dad 's going to give him the other .
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , just listen , I ca n't imagine why you misunderstood what I was trying to say . What I 'm trying to say is , everyone joins for their own different reasons , you ca n't generalise that . That was just one example , like one scenario that might happen . You know , I 'm not saying that 's the be all and end all , but it 's just one different scenario that may happen , like that .
[K74PSUNK]
I think , students are ,
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , go on
[K74PSUNK]
It depends some students are good and some students are n't . What happens with a student is they 're more likely to take the piss . They 're always the ones that are a bit more boisterous , whereas the older ones you have to physically carry on in the shop floor , the students do n't , and that 's what gives them a bad name .
[K74PSUNK]
It 's to do with their age as well , you know what I mean . They 're just growing up you know . People forget that , they 're still young people you know . We were there once .
[K74PSUNK]
They 're young and so they 've got lots of energy .
[K74PSUNK]
All the more reason to try and catch them , I think .
[K74PSUNK]
You ca n't put an old head on young shoulders , yes ?
[PS5NT]
That 's right , [UNCLEAR] . What about the other [UNCLEAR] through the hat , Ian ? How did you feel ?
[PS5P0]
Well it was erm , making me go back to something that goes on in branch all the time . To what I suppose would happen possibly about eighty percent of the time , where you 're working , you 've worked yourself off to do a superb drawing of a house all day , and er , the branch manager or whoever it may be , is walking round passing quotes , and walks off not really showing any general interest in this superb picture I 've just spent all my time doing . But it 's erm , I mean , that is something that happens a lot , erm , it just does n't give you any motivation , it 's sort of , you put your pen down , you think well why the hell do I bother , and you go off home thinking , oh well , the end of the day .
[K74PSUNK]
That reminds me of the time at our branch they 're doing a visit , and they did n't come down my isle , and they started to walk out , so I said excuse me , have you come to look at my department or not ? He comes out , and he , he went down there , and looked out , because we 'd spent a lot of time on it , getting it right , and we were well chuffed about it . Erm , and I asked him to stop and come down the isle . He said very nice , as he walked down . But I think he just walked straight down and walked out like , but , it was just an accident .
[PS5NT]
At least you made your point .
[K74PSUNK]
yes , we made a point , that everybody should be seen .
[PS5NT]
Yes , and then he 'll probably remember you for that .
[K74PSUNK]
He , he has a laugh when he comes in now .
[PS5NT]
What about the others ? Rachel , how did you feel ?
[PS5P1]
Well it was good feedback , I mean you told me what was good about it , what was bad about it , and , and you gave me constructive criticism as to how it could be better as well .
[PS5NT]
Mhm
[PS5P1]
You know , perhaps if you straightened up on the side , or made it a bit more symmetrical , so that I know how to improve it next time .
[PS5NT]
So , there 's something given , that entitles feedback I was giving you then , some people referred to it as this . The praise sandwich , it 's something to try and remember . When you 're giving feedback to people , yes , there were going to bad things about what they 've done , yes , there 's going to be good things , but if you can catch the bad things between two good things , even if the good things are just saying thank you , they 're going to go away with a bigger smile on their face , and probably feel more motivated for the next time they do that task .
[K74PSUNK]
That 's one skill thought about it , is n't there , there 's another idea that doing that is actually , has the opposite effect , but the only , you praise somebody , when you 're criticising , you say , well look you 've well anyway . You 're in danger of every time you 're praising that person , they 're going to be sitting back waiting for the [UNCLEAR] straight away , so you could n't , if you go up to somebody and they 've generally done a superb job and you ca n't fault him , and he knows he 's done a really good job , but he 's just sitting back waiting for you to way what , what you 've done wrong . Whereas I mean , , if you sort of give the criticism first and say the wrong area is that , and then finish it off with the praise , they know where they stand , and when you come up to them and say you 've done a superb job , they 're not just sitting back , thinking oh yes , what 's coming next .
[PS5NT]
Yes , I mean you can alter it around . You could say , well thank you for doing that , erm , there are a couple of things that I 'm not happy with , and then put the praise on the end . I think the important thing is not to let them go away thinking , you know , oh , why did I bother , there 's obviously no point in carrying on with it . What about , who 's the other person ?
[PS5P2]
Are you talking about me .
[K74PSUNK]
Dee
[PS5NT]
Dee , how did you , how did that feel , the feedback ?
[PS5P2]
It was alright , but I did n't know why it was good , or whether there was anything I should do better , it was just alright then , that 's it , I 've done it .
[PS5NT]
I think there 's a danger that you can go over the top with praise , in that you 're anxious to give quality feedback , the thing that you have to be careful with is that it 's not just meaningless like that , because that can be just as bad as giving negative feedback . You know , they do n't come with any idea of how they 've done really . Okay , what I 'm going to do now is I 'm going to split you in , into groups , I want to split you into two groups , we could have up to you , and the dividing line will be you and then [ANONYMIZATION] at the back there . This group , I want you to think about a member of staff that you have who is an asset , okay , a good member of staff . This group , the opposite , somebody who 's a liability , you may have personal experience of this . Erm , what I 'd like both groups to do is , first of all think of words and phrases you 'd use to describe that person 's performance in a formal scenario , I E in the appraisal , in an interview situation . Secondly what I 'd like , want both groups to do is to think how you would describe that person 's performance in an informal situation when you 're down the met , down the pub with your mates , or you 're in the [UNCLEAR] room , speaking to that person . Okay , is everybody clear on that ? Right , if this group would like to go syndicate one , and this group to syndicate two , and if you can be back by five to ten minutes .
[K74PSUNK]
Straight after [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Yes , if you , you do n't have , do you want to chart it up , or do you want to just feedback to the group ?
[K74PSUNK]
Feedback .
[PS5NT]
One of you put it down there [UNCLEAR] , no get him to write it up sorry .
[K74PSUNK]
You obviously might just concur with doing some work or something ?
[PS5NT]
No , no , [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] with wallpaper .
[K74PSUNK]
It 's my wallpaper .
[K74PSUNK]
Have you got a spare pen please ? My pen does n't work .
[K74PSUNK]
Have you got a bit more paper ?
[PS5NT]
yes .
[K74PSUNK]
Thank you very much .
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NT]
[K74PSUNK]
Hi ,
[K74PSUNK]
Hi ,
[K74PSUNK]
These are the sort of things we 'd say to a good person in a formal situation , erm , you 're reliable , trustworthy , you know , we can rely on you to do a good job for us , doing your job well and with enthusiasm , when left in charge there 's been no problems , you 're responsible and flexible , you 're conscientious , I can trust you for , to do a good job and thank you for your contribution to the team .
[PS5NT]
yes
[K74PSUNK]
And we also talked about maybe you could say , erm , you know , if you continue to do a job , maybe we 'll look you know , at developing you further , but it 's all sort of , pretty similar sort of things you 're going to say to him in that situation . And informal , we came up with a great variety of things . Erm , great job , thanks a lot , unreal , nice one , topper , you 're a star , champion , thanks for doing that for me , and this one was a bit disputed , but we had top banana at the end .
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NT]
Alright , thanks very much . I 'm pleased .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Right , what about the liability , the liability ? Is this it ?
[K74PSUNK]
Does n't anyone else want to do this ?
[K74PSUNK]
No , we 'll leave to you .
[K74PSUNK]
You go for that person .
[K74PSUNK]
Alright ,
[PS5NT]
Erm , hold on , I 'll give you some tape
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] , this 'll do darling .
[K74PSUNK]
thank you , it 's little things that [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
Sorry , it 's my problem . Right , that 's the other one .
[PS5NT]
Right , yes , I 'll just move this one out of the way a bit ,
[K74PSUNK]
One or two things up .
[PS5NT]
Right , this is the liability .
[K74PSUNK]
Er , [UNCLEAR] words and phrases , erm , not an asset , I 'm just wondering what the title below that , that one , er , inflexible , flexible ,
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
I think it says demotivating .
[K74PSUNK]
Oh right , I that that said , I thought that was another D , it could n't be , demotivated , erm , you 're too set in your ways , lack of detail , lack of commitment , irresponsible , is that , yes , lack of respect for your superiors , erm , disillusioned , you know , we er , we were going to put down things like er , mentally challenged , and things like that , but it did n't go down too well . Right , this is the easy one . , I mean it 's a lot easier to think of these things than it is for the other one , er , you would say , that was actually lazy bastard , but we did n't want to [UNCLEAR] offend anybody , er , useless git ,
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
Er , there was a great dispute about what this one could have been , I mean this , what the scenario 's wide , but I think we 'll settle for waste of space . Erm , taking the mick , she 's winding me up , thick as shit , obnoxious twat ,
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
I wished they 'd er , fuck off
[PS5NT]
Leave the company ?
[K74PSUNK]
yes , so , erm , if only they would resign , er , need a kick up the arse ,
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
You 're a pain in the arse .
[PS5NT]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , , but that 's , that 's the year before , okay .
[PS5NT]
Thank you very much , thank you . Okay , let's have a closer look at these , Right , just , read a few of those words there , why do you think have a ring around some of those words ? What is it about them ? Specifically ?
[K74PSUNK]
Are they in [UNCLEAR] areas ?
[K74PSUNK]
They 're key words in anyone 's er , [UNCLEAR] response .
[PS5NT]
Right .
[K74PSUNK]
They 're descriptive of their erm ,
[PS5NT]
They 're descriptive , any other ideas why I might have rung them , erm , ringed them ?
[K74PSUNK]
You should set standards by them as well .
[PS5NT]
Okay , yes ,
[K74PSUNK]
You can tell them in person what they are .
[PS5NT]
Right .
[K74PSUNK]
It 's what you judge them by , if you set performance .
[PS5NT]
Okay , any other ideas ? Okay , if I say to somebody , erm , Alex , you 're very responsible , okay , Karen I think you 're very flexible , erm , Tony , you 're very [UNCLEAR] , erm , very reliable , [UNCLEAR] , I mean , in is , in isolation , what do they , do they mean anything ?
[K74PSUNK]
No ,
[K74PSUNK]
Not really ,
[K74PSUNK]
No
[PS5NT]
So we think of them as being descriptive , but in reality , if you 're going to say to somebody , you 're very responsible , they 're probably not going to know what you mean , unless you come up with a few examples of what you 're talking about , of how they 've demonstrated that type of behaviour . Similar things like inflexible , okay , let's take another look at some of these words , it 's not so much of this where they 're an asset , , now I would imagine , that some of these as well as being things possibly you 'd say to your , your colleagues when you 're down the pub talking about your staff . Occasionally , is anyone going to own up to ever having said that to somebody ?
[K74PSUNK]
Yes
[PS5NT]
Yes , we 've all actually said this to their face .
[K74PSUNK]
And all the rest .
[PS5NT]
And all the rest , okay .
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NT]
Now bearing in mind what we talked about yesterday , why did those comments be potentially damaging , apart from the fact that they 're extremely insulting ?
[K74PSUNK]
Because they 're not constructively criticising them are they ? They 're just insulting them
[PS5NT]
Yes , they 're insulting
[K74PSUNK]
The , they 're resulting in a negative action , reaction from the person that they are addressing .
[PS5NT]
That 's right .
[K74PSUNK]
And yet , when you 've tried all the rest , it comes down to this , and it makes you feel better anyway , but it 's the last resort
[PS5NT]
[UNCLEAR] , it 's a last resort . One thing , yesterday , we were talking about my wonderful stick man , here he is basically made up of his personality , a number of attitudes and outward behaviour . What did those comments get at ? [UNCLEAR] .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
What did they refer to ?
[K74PSUNK]
The person , his personality .
[PS5NT]
Yes , they , they 're talking about that person 's personality , and their personality is not something they can change .
[K74PSUNK]
No
[PS5NT]
So basically if you 're going to se , tell somebody they 're a waste of space , it 's not very constructive , it 's personal , and I would n't say it unless you can tell them why you think they 're a waste of space at least .
[K74PSUNK]
I can . This is , er , this is the same face as you , yesterday I was on about , we 've tried everything , it 's getting down to that now .
[K74PSUNK]
yes , but it 's not working either
[PS5NT]
It 's just a shame that you 've got to
[K74PSUNK]
yes
[K74PSUNK]
for the time being .
[K74PSUNK]
You should only criticise when you 're [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
Well he , he turns round when he wants to be screamed at , he 's asked us to hit him . [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
But you 've decided why you , you 're just rising to the bait then are n't you , if these arguments are between you , and you 're coming out with all this , it just makes you look stupid because you 're , you 're into [UNCLEAR] , are n't you ?
[K74PSUNK]
I say , Carl , I think he needs to see [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
So he was really good , and now he 's , he 's gone bad now , and you 're using things like this to say to him .
[K74PSUNK]
He , he 's trying to make , he , he 's making him , you aggressive is n't he and I would say that he 's just thinking it 's low if I 'm going and this guy because , you know
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , yes , I 've said , I 've said this , yes , why
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Things like that are not constructive at all , I mean I know you must get to the stage with some members of staff where you think oh , what else can I do , but
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , but there 's no point you doing it that because it 's like , if they are a waste of space you 're not going to be able to get rid of them because you 've told them that they 're a waste of space , it needs to be something that 's much more positive , than just going round saying that .
[K74PSUNK]
This is it , I 've tried , this is why I 've not talked to somebody else about it , because nobody else is listening . And it explains to them why [UNCLEAR] has come out screaming at them and screaming abuse at them .
[PS5NT]
I think that there 's something that needs to be addressed there .
[K74PSUNK]
It does does n't it ?
[K74PSUNK]
I think it needs more time round here , that 's [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
Yes
[K74PSUNK]
Sorry , again ?
[K74PSUNK]
If you had more time round , you 'd use that sort of language with themselves . You know .
[PS5NT]
Yes , I think that , particularly , that sounds particularly what you want then . That is , those types of things are getting at somebody 's personality , and they 're not constructive . If you 're going to criticise somebody what I would say is , talk about their behaviour , because that 's something that they can change , talk about it in those terms . Right . I 'm going to show you a video now . Erm , how many of you went on the basic management skills course ? Yes , most of you . Do you remember the videos , the unorganised manager ? The ones with the job [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Right , well this is part three in that series , and I would like you to do one of , I 'd like you two things while you 're watching it . Firstly , make a note of all of the bully words and phrases that James Bolham uses when he 's talking about , or talking to , or talking about this man 's management . Okay , bully things , possibly in , in isolation do n't mean very much , put them over there . Secondly , I 'd like you to identify the three members of management that he 's dealing with , are called Barbara , oh God , what are they called , Barbara , Ted and Doughnut . That 's to see if you can identify what the problems are with each of those three , and why they 're experiencing difficulties in their job . okay .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
I do n't think I 've ever [UNCLEAR] the furniture . I think we might need the blinds down for this , otherwise it 's going to glare on the screen . So
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] a problem .
[PS5NT]
Thank you for all the effort to put the blinds down very much .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] , only trouble on it , when it [UNCLEAR] .
[K74PSUNK]
Yes the erm , the Celestial Times Colour Supplement
[K74PSUNK]
Yes
[K74PSUNK]
I do n't talk to the press much I 'm afraid .
[K74PSUNK]
Well if you could spare us a few moments , we 'd be most grateful , your [UNCLEAR] , it 's for a new series we 're contemplating , A Day in the Afterlife .
[K74PSUNK]
I see . I tell you what , I 'll , do sit down , so erm , you want to give people some idea of my jobshare as gate-keeper ?
[K74PSUNK]
Exactly .
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , well I 'm a kind of glorified immigration officer really .
[K74PSUNK]
You mean , keeping all the rotters out ?
[K74PSUNK]
The rotters , the cads , the bounders , the bad-hats , exactly , yes . It 's my job to weed out the black sheep really , it 's pretty straight forward .
[K74PSUNK]
But you must get borderline cases from time to time . Grey sheep as it were , where you have to exercise your powers of discretion ?
[K74PSUNK]
Very occasionally , yes . We get the odd mis-routing , there was a chap recently , er , should [UNCLEAR] , you know , where , the truth is , he was a technical sinner , not a real baddie , so I decided to stretch a point , and send him back down again to try and teach him where he went wrong . What was his name ? Lucan .
[K74PSUNK]
Really ?
[K74PSUNK]
No , no , Lupin , no , no , not Lucifer , but like that . Luther ? Lewis , Richard Lewis . God if ever there was an unorganised manager , there he is , never sorted out his priorities , could n't delegate to save his life , never had time for anything ,
[PS5NT]
Tomorrow , Jimmy I ca n't do everything .
[K74PSUNK]
In the end of course , he snapped , gave himself an early coronary .
[PS5NT]
Mr. Taylor , erm , Mr. Taylor ,
[K74PSUNK]
So anyway , I er , I decided to give him a second chance , so I explained calmly , and with grim patience ,
[PS5NT]
of course it is , but we 've got to plan it and take it to [UNCLEAR] , I mean
[K74PSUNK]
But what he 'd got to do was to plan his time , and work out his priorities , by distinguishing between those tasks that are urgent and those tasks that are important . And then to organise his schedule accordingly , by allowing time for both active and reactive tasks . You will get that wo n't you ? Urgent and important , active and reactive . It took a little time , but er , eventually he got it , and now I 'm delighted to say he 's one of the most organised managers on earth . See that , a model manager . These pictures are live by satellite , incidentally .
[PS5NT]
There we are Maggie , the morning 's correspondence . Nine twenty five . Ring Philip [ANONYMIZATION] and B T , not that there 's been any problems . Ah , Mr. [ANONYMIZATION] , Richard Lewis here , Barker and Gibbs Catering , we spoke yesterday .
[K74PSUNK]
It 's amazing , he 's a different man .
[K74PSUNK]
I 'm rather proud of it , yes , I think you can take it from me , Richard Lewis is one earthly executive we will be seeing up here . Now , er , tea ? Coffee ? Nectar ?
[K74PSUNK]
Nectar please , very dry .
[PS5NT]
That 's fine then Mr. [ANONYMIZATION] , many thanks indeed , bye . Oh , that all seems to be going swimmingly . Now , in a couple of minutes it 'll be time for the district managers .
[PS5NU]
Martin , Bernard here . Well how much are they asking ? For an extra two hours ' shift , well I suppose we can just afford it , can we ? Er , okay then Martin , I imagine as long as we keep our heads above water , then that 'll be okay .
[PS5NV]
A couple of [UNCLEAR] ?
[PS5NU]
I do n't think so Barbara , it 's a bit difficult to tell is n't it ?
[PS5NV]
It 's unfair , Bernard , you 've been in this job much longer than me , what do you think about this new menu for the canteen at Digby 's Ballbearings ?
[PS5NU]
Crunchy nut salad , t , what 's tortellini ?
[PS5NV]
Pasta , stuffed with spinach and cheese , spinach is full of iron you know .
[PS5NU]
Yes , would n't bangers and mash be a bit more
[PS5NV]
But Bernard , sausages are full of preservatives , pork takes longer to digest than any other meat , and potatoes are ninety percent water .
[PS5NW]
Morning all . Morning Maggie .
[K74PSUNK]
Nice to see you , you 're working today are you ?
[PS5NU]
It 's Tuesday , I thought Tuesday was golf , or is that just Monday , Wednesday , Thursday and Friday .
[PS5NW]
No Friday 's is gloating about my profits . How are yours by the way ?
[PS5NU]
Mm
[PS5NV]
Erm , I 'm tired , Tony , sorry . Erm , I was up half the night typing this stupid report .
[PS5NW]
Half the night ?
[PS5NU]
Report , what report ?
[PS5NW]
I did mine when I came in this morning .
[PS5NV]
Is that all ?
[PS5NW]
What are you talking about ?
[PS5NV]
The report on the projected sales for the next quarter , he asked for it at the last meeting , it 's okay .
[PS5NU]
But he did n't want that today , surely ?
[K74PSUNK]
It 's nine thirty , Mr. Lewis will see you now .
[PS5NT]
Right , that 's the end of that then , so let's move on to the projected sales reports I asked for last time . [UNCLEAR] , there we are ,
[PS5NV]
There we are Mr. Lewis .
[PS5NT]
What the hell 's this ?
[PS5NV]
My report .
[PS5NT]
I meant a summary , not War and Peace .
[PS5NV]
Well you never said how long you ,
[PS5NT]
Barbara , really
[PS5NV]
I , I was up till one putting that together .
[PS5NT]
I can well believe it , it 's a wonder your typewriter did n't get a hernia . I 'm sorry Barbara , but time 's a budget item with me these days , I ca n't wade through all this . Just summarise it , two pages is enough , here look like Tony 's , he knew what I wanted .
[PS5NW]
Lucky guess , really .
[PS5NT]
Bernard , I do n't seem to have yours here .
[PS5NU]
Yes , I 'm afraid I have n't done it yet Mr. Lewis .
[PS5NT]
Have n't done it , but I told you I wanted it today .
[PS5NU]
No you did n't , you said you wanted it as soon as possible , and so far , I 'm afraid , it just has n't been possible .
[PS5NT]
Oh dear , oh dear , oh dear .
[PS5NU]
I 'll try and get round to it first thing in the morning .
[PS5NT]
Well do will you , this is putting my system right out of gear . Now look everyone , I 'll come straight to the point , a lot of things simply are n't good enough . I could n't believe last month 's figures when they came in . Well look at them , just look at them , I think they speak for themselves , do n't they ? And one of you I 'm particularly disappointed in at the moment , I do n't want to name any names because I do n't think it 's right to embarrass her in front of the others ,
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NT]
But in general there 's a lot of room for improvement all round , all except Tony , it 's good work . But for God 's sake , buck your ideas up . Now then , that new vending machine I told you about last time . Here 's the literature on it , and I want a big Autumn push on this one , it 's a high profit item for us .
[PS5NW]
How many orders are you hoping for , ideally ?
[PS5NT]
As many as you can get .
[PS5NW]
Ah , I 've got you , when do you expect them in by ?
[PS5NT]
As soon as possible ,
[PS5NW]
B , yes , but
[PS5NT]
Oh , for goodness sake , just use your common sense , will you all of you . I think you expect me to spell everything out , oh , just hang on for a moment will you Barbara , fine . Thank you Tony . Er , now look Barbara , I know you have n't been in the job as long as the other two , but er , really you 're going to have to do better than this I 'm afraid . I think you know what I 'm talking about do n't you ?
[PS5NV]
Er , yes , of course Mr. Lewis .
[PS5NT]
People just are n't very happy with the type of food you 're serving Barbara .
[PS5NV]
Oh I see , oh right , Mr. Lewis .
[PS5NT]
These people want something satisfying , so you will try and do something about it wo n't you ?
[PS5NV]
Yes , of course , I understand Mr. Lewis .
[PS5NT]
Right then , off you go then , it 's my head that 's on the chopping block so you pull your socks up eh .
[PS5NV]
Have you time to [UNCLEAR] ,
[PS5NT]
Idiot
[PS5NT]
Richard Lewis , oh yes Sir , er , yes Sir , I 've just seen the figures , I 've been talking to them about it , oh yes , I 've told them exactly what 's wrong , but they do n't seem able to well yes Sir , I know it 's not good enough , but what can you do if you 've got idiots working for yo , what 's that , oh no Sir , I 'm not asking you , what , hello . Oh damn , oh that 's really great , I get the blame for these pompous , fat- headed morons , well I 'll tell them , the next time I 'll really tell them .
[K74PSUNK]
And what first interest did your gatekeeping , your [ANONYMIZATION] ?
[K74PSUNK]
Well er , oh , manner
[K74PSUNK]
Yes .
[K74PSUNK]
Do you know the story of the keys ?
[K74PSUNK]
No
[K74PSUNK]
Well it , it 's quite a long one , but you might be able to make something of it , erm , there was this rock and erm
[PS5NT]
Well I 'll them , the next time I 'll really tell them
[K74PSUNK]
Do you [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
You mean what on earth , is he supposed to be doing that ? I mean , is it a new management technique or something ?
[K74PSUNK]
No , no , I , I think he 's having er , another erm , excuse me .
[K74PSUNK]
Sha n't be a moment .
[K74PSUNK]
Front door please .
[PS5NT]
Oh my God .
[K74PSUNK]
No only his personnel manager , are you alright ?
[PS5NT]
Saint Peter ?
[K74PSUNK]
Are you alright ?
[PS5NT]
Yes , no , it just is n't fair . They do n't listen , and I get the blame . I mean I keep on tell
[K74PSUNK]
Keep it short , I 'm doing an interview .
[PS5NT]
It 's a long story ,
[K74PSUNK]
Urgent or important ?
[PS5NT]
What ? Oh , but .
[K74PSUNK]
Well you 'd better get in , you can tell me on the way up .
[PS5NT]
Mm ?
[K74PSUNK]
Well ?
[PS5NT]
I always get the blame , I 'll be back in intensive care again at this rate , you mark my words , you should see the shambles they make of everything I ask them to do .
[K74PSUNK]
Miss Angel of [UNCLEAR] , here 's Mr. Richard Lewis ,
[K74PSUNK]
How do you do ?
[K74PSUNK]
You will recall , no doubt , er , Mr. Lewis was , oh
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Right , if those of you sitting at the sides could stand up , move your chairs to the side please , and move the tables out as well . Thank you .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
And then come round and stand in the middle please .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] ,
[PS5NT]
If you 'd all like to come and stand in the middle , yes
[K74PSUNK]
After all these erm , can I come round there ?
[PS5NT]
Right , we 're going to have an exercise in giving each other positive feedback . The way we 're going to do this , I 'll kick it off , I 'll be standing in here , and [UNCLEAR] , and I 'll do a little act , okay ? Now this act can take any form you like , I could go or I can go right , then I 'll go like this , and I want you all give me a great big round of applause . Okay . As enthusiastic as possible . Then , I will say , ladies and gentlemen , I would like to present to you , and I 'll choose somebody else , and the next person comes out and does an act , and then introduces the next person , okay . And I want a lot of applause . I want really loud applause [UNCLEAR] , okay .
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NT]
Right , okay
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , alright , do n't get too carried away .
[K74PSUNK]
,
[PS5NT]
Ladies and Gentlemen , I would like to present to you the one , the only Anthony .
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NX]
[UNCLEAR] , Tony ,
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
Sean , Sean
[K74PSUNK]
Thank you
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
I 'd like to present to you Alex .
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NX]
[UNCLEAR] , Claire
[K74PSUNK]
, ,
[K74PSUNK]
Stephen , Stephen
[PS5NX]
I did n't hear my name , sorry . [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
[PS5NX]
Introducing the one , the only Gerard
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
What are we supposed to do ?
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
I mean , there 's lots of sets of playing cards , alright , you 've just got to do an action ?
[PS5NT]
A little action , yes .
[K74PSUNK]
A handstand
[PS5NT]
And we 'll give you a round of applause .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
oh , oh , you 've got to complete it .
[K74PSUNK]
Anything , anything .
[K74PSUNK]
,
[K74PSUNK]
Er , [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
Introducing the one and only Michael .
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
I give to you Helen
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR] ,
[K74PSUNK]
, , ,
[K74PSUNK]
John ,
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
, ,
[K74PSUNK]
I introduce to you [UNCLEAR] ,
[K74PSUNK]
That 's it .
[K74PSUNK]
[K74PSUNK]
Sophie
[K74PSUNK]
,
[PS5NT]
I feel [UNCLEAR] Sophie , this is actually great .
[K74PSUNK]
.
[PS5NT]
Right , so if you 'd like to pull your tables back in and sit , resume your seats please .
[K74PSUNK]
[UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Okay then , back to the video we were looking at before break . You erm , very accurately analysed what the problems where with Barbara , who did n't know her job , did n't know who her customers were etcetera , Bernard and Tony . Now I 'm sure you can relate this to people that work with you , or the situation that you yourself have come across , how would you go about , first of all with Barbara , how you can improve the situation ?
[K74PSUNK]
I thought that 's all been , you know , [UNCLEAR]
[K74PSUNK]
Why ? [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Why not ? Why not , [UNCLEAR] , say Barbara , what would you do with Barbara ?
[K74PSUNK]
Sit her down and tell her exactly what her job is , set the targets and what you expect her to achieve .
[PS5NT]
Right .
[K74PSUNK]
And explain to her that although she did a good job with the Board of Directors , but erm , the ballbearings people wanted something different .
[PS5NT]
Okay , so it 's the idea , Barbara , sit her down , and explain what the job is . How does Sainsbury 's , I mean , what do we have that covers that action ?
[K74PSUNK]
The job description .
[PS5NT]
The job description , do you think that 's a valid way of doing it ?
[K74PSUNK]
No
[K74PSUNK]
It 's a bit formal , is n't it .
[PS5NT]
It 's a bit formal , right so let me see .
[K74PSUNK]
No , but possibly you could sit down together and go through it .
[K74PSUNK]
Your job description covers a multitude , and the fact that it frames the needs of the business , does n't it ?
[PS5NT]
yes , that 's it .
[K74PSUNK]
That 's the catchword , is n't it .
[PS5NT]
So possibly go through the job description together .
[K74PSUNK]
For the staff , we 've got those checklists have n't we ?
[PS5NT]
Right , how do they work ?
[K74PSUNK]
Well it 's like erm , the store instructors are supposed have trained them on those specific things ,
[PS5NT]
yes
[K74PSUNK]
And they , it basically says , there 's erm , replenish , or rotate stock , and they sort of tick or sign to say that they 've done it .
[PS5NT]
Right .
[K74PSUNK]
But erm , sometimes they have n't covered it completely , or do n't understand it , they 've just ticked it , and signed it to say that they know what they 're doing .
[PS5NT]
Okay , so you go into that in a lot more , in a lot more detail . Right so first , you 'd sit her down , and you go through the job description perhaps , what about an on-going basis ?
[K74PSUNK]
I think maybe at first she should have a morning meeting , or a weekly meeting , to discuss the menus for the following week .
[PS5NT]
Okay
[K74PSUNK]
And perhaps [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
Meetings on a regular basis .
[K74PSUNK]
Try and encourage her , excuse me , try and encourage her to come and see you whenever she 's got a problem . Over a period of time , it 's the meetings to begin with , but if you could then reach a stage where she could sort most problems out herself and only came to you when necessary .
[PS5NT]
Okay , so that 's offering support , if you need a hand at the moment ? Alright then , what about Bernard ? What would you do with him ? He already knows his job , to an extent
[K74PSUNK]
You 've got to set him targets , you know specific targets and deadlines and things .
[PS5NT]
Right , now , do you mean targets , or do you mean standards , when you say targets ?
[K74PSUNK]
Well , I suppose it 's standards . He 's got to know the company targets
[PS5NT]
Right
[K74PSUNK]
In order to do his job .
[PS5NT]
Okay , so you would make sure he knew that . I mean , I think there 's , there 's basically a difference between standards and targets , can anybody explain what that is ?
[K74PSUNK]
Standards are the minimum acceptable , and the target 's what you want to achieve .
[PS5NT]
Right , so , when you set a standard , is that to one person or for everybody ?
[K74PSUNK]
Everybody
[PS5NT]
Okay , does everybody agree with that , or not ?
[K74PSUNK]
yes
[PS5NT]
Yes , and a target , where does that come ? If the standard 's there , where does the target come ?
[K74PSUNK]
Above it .
[PS5NT]
Above it , yes , okay . So Bernard really needs to be what the company has in mind . I mean they were talking on the video about profit margins , but he did n't company [UNCLEAR] he was supposed to achieve , presumably there was a minimum for all three of them , so What else would you do with Bernard ? I mean he 's fairly lacking in confidence and whatever ?
[K74PSUNK]
Tell him the bits that he does do right .
[PS5NT]
Right .
[K74PSUNK]
There must be something .
[PS5NT]
Pardon ?
[K74PSUNK]
There must be something .
[PS5NT]
, so it 's praise they 're due ? , Was that it for Bernard or is there anything else ?
[K74PSUNK]
He needs time skills as well , instead of just doing things as soon as possible because you get to the things that become more pressing take over ,
[PS5NT]
yes
[K74PSUNK]
and you 're just fighting , but he needs time skills in which to do things .
[PS5NT]
Mm , Okay Okay , what about Tony then ? Has anybody got a Tony ?
[K74PSUNK]
I did have .
[PS5NT]
You did have , what happened to him ? Or what was , what was the scenario ?
[K74PSUNK]
It 's er , section manager at erm , a couple of years , but erm , well [UNCLEAR] for the job , very well educated . Erm , all I can say from his view point , erm , totally bored , nothing to , educated . Erm , all he needs time skills indy ?
[PS5NT]
Mm
[K74PSUNK]
He was practically running the department while I was working on the store for him , and he 's ready for further things than that ,
[PS5NT]
I see
[K74PSUNK]
Before he was very , very bored , no challenges for him , nothing to do , erm , this guy 's been at director level , er , trouble-shooting for large abattoirs , going in and sorting problems out , and picking them off the ground , so he 's had loads of challenges , erm , the company 's just so slow for him . Erm , and now we 're trying to side-track into , just pile everything on to him , he loves it , he thinks it 's wonderful .
[PS5NT]
Yes , anybody
[K74PSUNK]
And he 's sort of picked himself up now , and he 's more [UNCLEAR] , where I 'm getting involved .
[PS5NT]
, you 've got your job . Anybody else ?
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , I 've got a price controller that she , erm , can do her job in eight , nine hours , and it 's all she wants to do . If you give her anything else , she can do that as well , she tries not to get involved , but I try to keep giving her more , so she 's not getting bored with the job .
[PS5NT]
How 's that working out ?
[K74PSUNK]
Fine , she always manages to do it , she complains at first that she 's got too much to do , but she always gets in done in time , as well as her own work .
[PS5NT]
Which works out for both of you . What about any , anybody else had anything like that ?
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , I 've got a guy in , well I 've got a couple of people on the shift , and er , the more you give them to do , they just love it , but the thing about it is , I think the mistake that I certainly make from time to time , is the more you give them to do , you 've sort of erm , taken something from somebody else , and then it , it 's trying to keep that erm , trying to keep that more level , and fairness to everybody . Oh , yes , [UNCLEAR] , I 've got a supervisor at [UNCLEAR] , who talks [UNCLEAR] , she used to forty cases , and now she does sixty , seventy cases , excellent . But , Debbie was just getting to the stage where she was just to same on the shift , erm , but yes , you need , like , th , the , you get certain people that , they just need the challenge , but then you can find yourself erm , getting into a situation where you 're giving them those extra things to do but you 're taking them away from somebody else , so they 're like just going into the background , you know .
[PS5NT]
How does it , I mean , has that , have any of the other people on your shift had a bad reaction to that ?
[K74PSUNK]
No
[PS5NT]
They have n't ?
[K74PSUNK]
No , no , they 're not complaining because they 're getting an easy time , er , I mean , I 've got a couple like that as well . And if er , I mean one of these girls is worth maybe three others , you know , they 're all erm , they 'll [UNCLEAR] , and still clear the shopfloor , get them downstairs , and sweep up for you in say , four hours , and one person does that while the rest [UNCLEAR] . You know and he 's , just the , you know , you can , you can really turn it around . But er , the job 's just what he sees , they 're just not bothered . They , they 'll do their part , they see that part as their responsibility , as er , the rule , restocking the wares when I first went there , now they 'll do , like more than one isle per night each , and get away with , when I first went there , we used ten people a night . And now we get away with five or six .
[PS5NT]
Mm , gosh .
[K74PSUNK]
You know , er , and we 're still achieving the same job at a lot higher standard .
[PS5NT]
Which is great .
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , because you know , erm , we still save money on labour costs , erm , but there again when you get , when people do go sick , it 's er , it 's quite detrimental , so everyone 's having to work even harder . You go on a management scheme , it cut 's back your headcount even more , you know .
[PS5NT]
If you show what you can do with less , you er ,
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , you know , y , you get penalised for it .
[PS5NT]
Yes , nasty . Anybody else ? Have an experience with a high flyer ? Anybody been in our situation themselves ?
[K74PSUNK]
I once worked in the shopfloor in a factory , putting cream on to cream cakes , when I finished college , and they took me out and put me in the lab even though I did n't have any science degree , and I was in the labs for three months . [UNCLEAR]
[PS5NT]
How did they , how did they identify that then ?
[K74PSUNK]
Well they knew that I was a graduate in erm , they had two , they had a , a lab manager and an assistant , and they both went sick at the same time , and er , they asked me if I 'd do it . They told me it was just like following recipes , and it was so I did . It was more interesting that doing this stuff to all the cream cakes [UNCLEAR] .
[K74PSUNK]
It 's probably a similar situation at er , the last company I worked for , used to have me , me lunch hour , I used to go down the swimming baths and do two and half hours there . The job was still done in daylight hours , but you took an hour and half out every day like , but that 's
[PS5NT]
But that was , you were n't really being challenged there , were you ?
[K74PSUNK]
No
[PS5NT]
No , okay , well , I 'll put on erm , part four of the video now , of this same unorganised manager , and you can see how Richard Lewis went about trying to solve the problems of his managers , and see if you agree with them or not as the case may be . I 'm afraid I 'm going to put the blinds down again , or do you think ? I do apologise for this noise .
[PS5NT]
Start at the end .
[K74PSUNK]
No it 's too late for that now , we 'll have to start at the beginning . So , er , you can organise yourself , but you ca n't organise other people , right ?
[PS5NT]
Yes , but why ca n't they organise themselves ?
[K74PSUNK]
Because it 's your responsibility
[PS5NT]
I mean they 're so useless , why do n't you bring them up here and grill them too ?
[K74PSUNK]
We do n't grill up here , they look after that in the basement as you 'll probably soon discover , unless of course you go to the lower basement .
[PS5NT]
Lower basement ?
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , the basement is for those who fail , the lower basement is for those failures who blame their failure on their supporters . So let's take a look at your three district managers . Three people , each representing a particular failure of yours . First of all , let's look at Barbara , who does n't understand what she 's supposed to be doing , because you 've failed to tell her clearly what her responsibilities are . Then there 's Bernard , who does n't know how well he 's supposed to be doing because you failed to give him standards of performance that he could measure his efforts by . And finally , there 's Tony , who 's wasting a lot of his time because you have n't giving him enough targets to keep him interested and to develop his potential , and to get the best out of him . Three failures , therefore , right , to clarify responsibilities , to set standards , and to agree targets .
[PS5NT]
But it 's not all my fault .
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , could you say that just a little louder , I 'm not sure that they caught it down in the lower basement . Now , let's start with your first problem . [UNCLEAR] , Well done , he 's right , no you were n't , I was just calling an order down to the lower basement .
[PS5NT]
Er , no , not Barbara . Erm , failure to clarify Barbara 's
[K74PSUNK]
The first thing you 've got to do with your subordinate , is to tell them what their job is .
[PS5NT]
They know that .
[K74PSUNK]
Oh really ?
[PS5NT]
Well they 're not missionaries are they , or tail gunners , they 're district managers in a catering company .
[K74PSUNK]
Look Tony and Bernard may have found out what their job is the hard way , but Barbara certainly know .
[PS5NT]
But what does she think it is then ?
[K74PSUNK]
Why do n't we find out .
[PS5NV]
You see I 'm what 's called a district manager .
[K74PSUNK]
What 's that involve ?
[PS5NV]
Well I 'm a sort of ideas woman , and er , advisor , primarily to a series of canteens . My job is to use my knowledge and experience of catering to make sure that the meals are exciting , varied enough , and above all they 're nutritionally balanced , high protein , low carbohydrate , plenty of fibre , and the key vitamins and minerals . It 's quite a challenge really .
[K74PSUNK]
Well do you agree with her description of the job .
[PS5NT]
I , I ,
[K74PSUNK]
Well how is she supposed to find out from you what her job is , tarot cards , reading the leaves in your empty tea cups , extra-sensory perception ? Waiter , take her , her away . How about telling her , and when you do tell her , start at the very beginning . Remember this , your purpose you toyed executive , is to provide quality food at prices your clients can afford , while maximising your profit margin , am I correct ?
[PS5NT]
Well if you put it like that , yes , that is the company 's purpose .
[K74PSUNK]
Therefore it 's yours . There , that 's always with you . Simple is n't it ? So , what is Barbara there for .
[PS5NT]
About another twenty four hours if she does n't buck her ideas up .
[K74PSUNK]
Over done with tea sauce Now have ever actually told her what her job is .
[PS5NT]
A thousand times , I told her half an hour ago .
[K74PSUNK]
Did you ? Well I think we should take another look at what you actually said this time with subtitles for those poor people who are n't telepathic .
[PS5NT]
Erm , now Barbara , I know you have n't been in the job as long as the other two , but er , really you 've got to do better than this I 'm afraid . I think you know what I 'm talking about do n't you , I mean it 's not as if you 're totally new to the business ?
[PS5NV]
No , er , ye , yes of course .
[K74PSUNK]
People just are n't happy with the type of food you 're serving Barbara .
[PS5NV]
But , oh , I see , oh right Mr. Lewis .
[PS5NT]
These people want something satisfying , so you will try and do something about it wo n't you ?
[PS5NV]
Yes , of course , I understand Mr. Lewis .
[PS5NT]
She did n't quite get my drift did she ?
[K74PSUNK]
Not terribly no , so , you must define for her clearly what her responsibilities are . What are they ?
[PS5NT]
To see that each of her catering units operates to the highest standard possible while balancing our clients ' requirements against profitability with due regard to company policy .
[K74PSUNK]
Good , then you must make her responsibilities even clearer , by defining key areas where she is [UNCLEAR] to get a result .
[PS5NT]
Well that 's not so easy .
[K74PSUNK]
No I thought it might not be , let's put it another way . What are the principle areas in which your district managers can cock things up .
[PS5NT]
Oh , do n't get me on to that one . Overspending , complaints from customers , failure of public health inspection .
[K74PSUNK]
Alright , that 's three for a start .
[PS5NT]
Three what ?
[K74PSUNK]
Three key areas where you can establish if you need decent results . Budget control , customer satisfaction and hygiene . Now , do those define the job fully ?
[PS5NT]
No
[K74PSUNK]
Go on then .
[PS5NT]
Well there 's profitability , new business .
[K74PSUNK]
Two more to use on areas , now would you like to tell some of this to Barbara ?
[PS5NT]
Yes .
[K74PSUNK]
Tomorrow morning , nine thirty ?
[PS5NT]
Okay .
[PS5NV]
But I thought I was promoted because everyone was going on about my originality . I thought you wanted the same approach .
[PS5NT]
Well that 's my fault for not making your new job clearer . That was great when you were a unit manager for a Directors ' Boardroom , but it 's not right now for a work 's canteen .
[PS5NV]
Oh
[PS5NT]
You see your canteen takings have dropped by nearly twenty percent over the last two months .
[PS5NV]
Have they ?
[PS5NT]
Well you should know that ?
[PS5NV]
Should I ? I thought that if people were unhappy
[PS5NT]
It 's one of your principle responsibilities , how many times have I told you ?
[PS5NT]
I er , look , erm , what I should have done is clarify what you 're doing here . Now , I wrote this out .
[PS5NV]
Oh .
[PS5NT]
Yes , and I 've broken it up into parts , I 'll be doing the same with Bernard and Tony , incidentally .
[PS5NV]
Key areas .
[PS5NT]
Right , they 're the make or break areas which comprise your job . Now I 'd like to go through each of them with you now and then again in two weeks ' time , and hear any suggestions you may have .
[PS5NV]
Oh right .
[K74PSUNK]
So the first lesson in organising your staff successfully is to define their responsibilities , tell them what they 're there for . Then , establish the key area in which the person doing that job must achieve results , and review them regularly to make sure your employee always has the same view of the job as you do .
[PS5NT]
Well that 'll help me with Barbara , but it does n't solve Bernard 's problem . He knows what his responsibilities are , but he does n't get decent results .
[K74PSUNK]
Well how do you expect Bernard results if you do n't tell him which results are decent ?
[PS5NT]
Come again ?
[K74PSUNK]
Alright , we 've dealt with responsibilities , lesson two , standards .
[PS5NT]
Ah , ha , I 'm a stickler for standards .
[K74PSUNK]
Are you ?
[PS5NT]
Oh yes , every month I call him into the office and I say , it still is n't good enough , pull your socks up .
[K74PSUNK]
How far ?
[PS5NT]
I 'm sorry ?
[K74PSUNK]
How far do you tell Bernard to pull his socks up , an inch , three inches , a foot ?
[PS5NT]
I do n't understand .
[K74PSUNK]
Well it 's not good enough , you 're not doing your job properly .
[PS5NT]
I know , well
[K74PSUNK]
You 've got to do better .
[PS5NT]
But how ?
[K74PSUNK]
By bucking your ideas up , by getting a grip on yourself , above all , by pulling your socks up .
[PS5NT]
But how ?
[K74PSUNK]
Exactly . All those phrases , useless . Woolly management of the worst kind . Er , a substitute for thought and no help to anyone . No look , every employee needs to be set standards of achievement below which he must not fall . Now these standards need to be visible , common to everyone in the same job , and fixed , er , like a yardstick , by which the employee can measure his activities for himself . If you do n't give him a yardstick , you get this .
[K74PSUNK]
We 're talking about a complete refit really . Replace cookers , instal new deep freeze units , streamline all the worksurfaces , here you are , you wo n't get it done any cheaper than that I can promise you .
[K74PSUNK]
My God , will it really cost this much ?
[K74PSUNK]
Listen , I 'm doing you a favour .
[K74PSUNK]
I 've got to be so careful , that 's the trouble , I never know when my boss is suddenly going to bite my head off . Still , I think we 're making enough to cover it .
[K74PSUNK]
You see , the poor did n't know whether he could afford the contract or not . He 's having to operate on guesswork .
[PS5NT]
Guesswork .
[K74PSUNK]
Yes , erm , do you remember that report your staff handed in this morning ?
[PS5NV]
There you are Mr. Lewis .
[PS5NT]
Thanks , what the hell 's this ?
[PS5NV]
It 's my report .
[PS5NT]
I meant a summary not War and Peace , just two pages . Here look like Tony 's , he knew what I wanted .
[K74PSUNK]
If you only wanted two pages you should have said so , you could have said something like I only want two pages . It 's not difficult .
[PS5NT]
Oh erm , Bernard , I do n't seem to have yours here .
[PS5NU]
I 'm afraid I have n't done it yet Mr. Lewis .
[PS5NT]
Have n't done it , but I told you I wanted it in today .
[PS5NU]
No you did n't , you just said you wanted it as soon as possible , and so far I 'm afraid it just has n't been possible .
[K74PSUNK]
If you wanted the report handed in by a certain day , why did n't you say so ? I mean if you 'd set precise standards in the first place , you would n't have caused all that confusion .
[PS5NT]
So what is a standard then ?
[K74PSUNK]
A standard is quite simply a measurement , imposed by you on your staff , that tells them exactly what 's expected of them . It enables your staff to know themselves how well they 're doing their job , and if they 're keeping up to the mark . It helps them .
[PS5NT]
I 've heard the theory but you ca n't actually set measurable standards in all the jobs can you ?
[K74PSUNK]
If you think about it , you 'll find you can . Well , we may not have enough time for that , so erm , let's imagine that you 're a sales director , and , now this is more difficult . Let's imagine that you 're an effective one . Now these are the minimum standards we expect from our salesmen . No fewer than ten cold calls each month , all cold call reports must be filed within seven working days of a visit , and a minimum of eighty calls to be made per month to existing customers . Mm ?
[PS5NT]
Oh I see , I am laying down precise quotas so my staff can see at once if things are n't up to scratch .
[K74PSUNK]
Right .
[PS5NT]
Ah , but sales is easy .
[K74PSUNK]
Alright , you 're a production manager . Right so we 've agreed on a maximum of sixteen and three quarter percent paper wastage , three hours setting up time , and er , four and half hours printing .
[PS5NT]
Well alright , but sales and production are easily quantified , you ca n't have measurable standards for everything .
[K74PSUNK]
You can . You 'll find everything is measurable in terms of one or more of these four factors . Quality , quantity , time , cost .
[PS5NT]
Everything ?